Finding Balance in the Mortgage Industry with Michelle Chretien

Welcome back to Mortgage Daddies. Today we have our special guest and one of our newest additions, Michelle Chretien from New Hampshire. How are you? Thank you for coming down. Thanks. Thanks for coming down, Michelle. Thanks for having me. I’m so excited. It’s a long time in the works. Well, a little slow. The upkeep. I’m Vernon. I run the top mortgage brokerage in Massachusetts with over 20 years of experience. I’m Craig. I’ve done $100 million consistently since my second full year in the business and I’m Massachusetts’ top mortgage broker. We’re the Mortgage Daddies, with real advice, real stories and real results. Let’s get going. We’ve been going back and forth with Michelle for like a while. Hmm. Not really going back and forth in the sense of come join Milestone, but we’ve- we’ve been on the phone with each other, helping each other out, coaching each other- Yeah. growing with each other. For years. For years, yeah. Yes. When I opened up my shop, I was broker/owner when I opened up in January of 2020, ’cause Vern and I used to work together at other places, and he was like my biggest advocate. Like I’d call him and be like, “Vern, I don’t know what I’m doing. “”How do I do this,” or, “How do I do that? “Or things like that. Sure. And it was, you know, it’s great. He’s like a little brother. Taller, you knowAt least I got taller out of that one. There you go. She’s the best person we’ve ever had in an episode. Right? Usually everybody just wants to roast me, so I appreciate it. So you had your own shop for a while. What made you make the move over to Milestone? So, you know, being a broker, the difference from coming from retail into a broker shop and when you open your own, I think the biggest part is you had some tools that you now then want to create. And if you spend all that time creating the tools and trying to do what you need to do, your origination suffers. There’s not enough time in the day to do both, and there was a lot that I didn’t want to do. I don’t want to do call reports. I don’t want to deal with banking audits. I don’t want to do any of that anymore. I just want to write business and help people grow. This literally came up on our last podcast with the exact same thing of- Yeah. why people are coming over, because if- if you’re a top producer or you’re a good producer and you go start your own company, there’s so much more that goes into it than people think. And you need somebody to help you, which luckily you had- Right. because how else would you even figure out what you need to do? Would not have. Never mind then having to go do it all. And then, you know, you start doing, with the compliance things and, you know, the tech, like I’m a little older than most in the industry. Been around for, since the early ’90s in the industry. So to change up and to build the tech wouldn’t work for me. Mm-hmm. Like I’m a plug-and-play over here. It’s huge,And I’m not too old to learn. Yeah, and we’re excited for that. I meanWhat are you most excited about of- as of- with the having a fresh start at Milestone? I love that it’s, everything’s all set for you. The onboarding first of all, ’cause I’ve just gone through that. You know, my son came through earlier than I did. And it’s amazing, you’ve thought of everything. And there’s the videos and there’s everything else already in there, so I can just go, “Okay, I don’t- I’m not quite sure how to do this,” and I can watch, we’ve watched Craig like I think 10 times on one video. So it was great. But then it’s not like I don’t have to call and bug somebody. Yeah. It’s right there, you know? So if it’s at 10:30 at night and I’m sitting there saying, “All right, I’m stuck,” I can go and look at that. Which is huge. Yeah. It’s already preset. A lot of those stuff comes from trial and error because- Yeah. as you start to bring people on it’s easy one or 2 people. “Okay, this is what we’re doing. “But then you bring more people in- Mm-hmm. now you gotta go back again and go try to restart the whole process with somebody and then you miss things and, you know, you have that person and being that newer person sitting there on a Tuesday at 8:00 at night trying to figure something out, it’s very frustrating if you can’t get through what you’re trying to get through. And- and, you know, for me too, right, being in New Hampshire, I’m 20 minutes out of Massachusetts. For me as a broker, to get licensed in New Hampshire, it’s expensive. And now I don’t have to. Now I have Massachusetts, let’s go, game on. So Maine too, right? I’m, you know, I’m right in that little sweet spot with both. Yeah. So I think that excites me too is the more states. I’m excited for you, I’m sure we’ll talk about this more, is you know everybody in the industry. I mean, when you have 20 plus years like you do, uh, in the industry and you’re super involved in a lot of different groups, and we’ll get into that as well, but I’m super excited to see you be able to grow your team- Mm-hmm. and your- your- your reputation in Milestone at the same time because everybody knows, likes and trusts you, right? Like that’s the reason I was so open to helping you, right? Like you’re a good person. You want to do the right thing. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, and you- you’re- you haven’t seen this yet ’cause you’ve been onboarded for all of about, you know, 5 days at this point-is your phone’s gonna start ringing. Oh, it’s ringing. And people are gonna say, “Hey, why- why- why’d you choose Milestone? Why’d you close out. “Because I feel like in this industry everybody wants to be the broker/owner- Mm-hmm. until you’re the broker/owner. And then you’re like, I don’t want to do this anymore. Like I didn’t sign up for this. I still wanted to make my- the same money I did as a loan officer, but I wanted to be the broker/owner. Until you are, right? And that’s the piece that, you know, talking to you and Russell and some other people we’ve brought on, it’s the same thing I’m hearing over and over and over again. You can’t make more time, right? So by joining Milestone all the systems are in place, the tech is, I mean, over the top. I- I, you know, got some insight in the beginning, but now that I see it and it’s physically there, I’m like, “Okay, you didn’t sell that good, because it’s much better-” “than what you sold. “By the way, it’s evolving like every- Yeah. 15 days it’s like a whole new platform for us. So, you know, I want to be able to like, okay, it’s, you know, Thursday night at 4:00. I sneak out and have dinner with my granddaughters. If I’m on my own shop I can’t do that ’cause there’s no oneWe can’t do a family vacation because we’re both working in the business. Mm-hmm. Now I have a team that will help me here. I’ll be like, “Hey guys, we’re checking out. We’re going on vacation. Can you help me out a little bit? “So that’s the one piece that you don’t have and you can’t have, you know, being yourself. I think the other piece, you know, going back is, you’re gonna be able to grow- Mm-hmm. exponentially because you have all the tools in place with the technology. The onboarding, you don’t have to do it yourself, you don’t have create those- Yeah. you don’t have to do the training. It’s already built in there. You’re, you’re probably gonna make more money on that individual LO that you recruit from California because now you can recruit somebody in California- Yeah. because you’re part of a bigger family at Milestone, who’s, we, you know, where we’re at like 34, 35 licenses. Where you don’t have to be licensed anymore as a company in every single state. Milestone’s already taken care of that. Well, and the part that most broker owners don’t think about, they’re like, “Oh great, I can have all these different lenders. This is awesome. “But the portion and the part to get licensed on, like to get signed up with all those, you know. I, how many hours in a year are you spending on just signing up a new lender, right, that maybe you’re only gonna use for one deal? But then you’ve gotta go through all of the junk that they deserve and, you know, because they’re gonna trust in you. I don’t have to do any of that anymore. That’s on your plate. Thank you. Yeah. You’re gonna feel like you’re, I feel like your credit report’s gonna have about 15 less inquiries. I just look at mine-and like every time when a renewal comes around, I’m like, “Can we just use a soft pull for me? “Like- Yeah. Because every investor wants to pull every warehouse line. Uh, and that, that’s the other piece is, we’re bringing you into warehouse lending- Which I didn’t have. correspondent, which you didn’t have, it’s already in place. that’s a whole nother avenue- Yeah, so exciting. that I’m, I’m excited to see that, that take off for you. ICraig’s like, “Yeah, she’s crazy. “”I think you already knew that. “That’s why we get along well. Craig’s got a lot of crazy in him. He’s good. He can handle it. No, I, I, I totally get it honestly. Like, I think a lot of people, I think you’re gonna see more and more people coming over that had shops because it’s just, it’s super time-consuming and- And, uh-you know, it’s, you’re doing non-money-making activities-a lot of the time and if you don’t have a lot of production that you brought on from other people, w- what’s the point? Yeah. And I think the hesitation for me doing it was all ego. Mm. It’s always ego. Like, “Oh, I have my company. I have my name. I built this. “And you know, my daughter sat me down and she said, “They use you. They don’t care where you work. “Mm-hmm. Yep. It doesn’t matter. They don’t care what the business card says. Doesn’t matter. They want to work with- Yeah. Meme Michelle. Meme Michelle. Yeah. So that’s the part that I think was my slowest on my roll to come over. I think one of the, uh, when I’m on the phone with a broker owner who’s thinking about joining, and I don’t know if I had to do this with you because I’m not really that pushy with you, I let you control the conversation more times than not. Smart. But most, most broker owners out there just ask yourselves this one question. What is your exit strategy? Almost everything I get myself into, I already am looking at how do I get out of this, right? Craig has taught me a, a key word and he teases me about this all the time and it’s no. Right? Like I always had a hard time and I still do of saying the word no to people. Like, “Vern, can you be at this event? Can you do this? Can you, can you help me with this? “And I’m like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah. “Next thing I know I’m like drowning in my office. But then I think a lot of broker owners have that same FOMO, right? Like I have to be there, I have to send some people. But why are you doing what you’re doing? WhyTake the ego out of it. Mm-hmm. Are you making more money? Do you have less stress? Do you have a better home life? Is your personal life with your kids, your wife, your spouse, is it better? The answer’s no. Right? Not necessarily. Like 99% of the time unless you’re a superhuman, it, it just doesn’t exist. And I always broke it down to like what’s my exit strategy out of this broker channel? Or just mortgages in general, right? And I don’t mean stop originating or stop being part of the company but like what are you trying to achieve by doing what you’re doing? Right? Like there’s, we know a lot of broker owners, we’re not gonna say any names, the ego is way bigger than the, the, the, the bankroll. Like I look at them like, “Wow, they’re spending a lot of money. I don’t know where they’re getting it from. “Yeah. Like you can see people’s volume right online. There’s only so much money. Russell was just on, you know, a previous episode. There’s not a lot of money at the end of the day in this industry- No. with, you know, the, the, the cost of everything rising. Just the cost of like credit and compliance andWell, what are you gonna do? Leave it to your kid? Like the broker owners out there, like what do you plan on doing with this in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years? What do you plan on doing with it? And so even for me was different, right? because my son works with me. So that’s the best part. Yeah. So I was like, Oh, he can take it. He can take it. And then, I realized I failed him until we decided to come here. Because I had him in a role that I thought was good for him. It, it was good for him, but he’s a much better loan officer than he ever was the part. So now he’s a loan officer here and I think that’s gonna be more fun to watch him grow. Absolutely. And it’s gonna give him financial freedom. And you guys can do it together. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we have my, uh, what was the new word we learned? Not database. Portfolio. Cause the more you, your people are your portfolio, the more you pour into them. I have my entire database back to 2006. So like just think about that. When the market flips a little bit, which will at some point, it’s gonna be crazy. I can’t wait. And now you have all the tools and the technology to make sure you’re reaching out to them, educating them until the market flips. Yeah. And in 2020, 2021, I didn’t have systems in place to capitalize on half the business I could’ve. Now I do. That’s insane. So when there’s a change of rates, that really makes a difference. Even just the cashout refis that I’m seeing come through my desk. Ugh. I had 2 or 3 applications yesterday, just cashout rates and I’m like, What is happening? Even like when you have your own business, like even if you were able to capitalize on all of them, how would you have been able to handle all too? Cause like the scale side of it’s very difficult when you’re trying- You can’t. to run a smaller business. Okay, well, how many ops do we need? Okay, well, we’re good here. Well, what if the market flips? Now I need more ops. Well, you need to now slow down to hire and train somebody and it’s gonna affect it and you’re not gonna be able to handle it. When you’re at somewhere that you can it doesn’t matter if you have one loan or if you have 150 loans, you can get it done. Mm-hmm. It’s like working with why so many people like working with UWM. It doesn’t slow down- Nope. if it’s busy in the market or not. They keep the same standard. And having the support that we have with the options to have extra support- It’s huge. it doesn’t matter if they’re, we do 150 loans a month or we do 250 loans a month. We’re, it’s not gonna slow down. Yeah. You know, that’s one thing that like I would never wanna work somewhere that you can’tI remember when refinances were crazy and you’d be talking to people I know in the business and they’re like, Oh, yeah. Yeah. Can’t close a loan for 45 days cause they don’t have, you know, they can’t fund the loan. Yeah. They can’t fund these refis or, you know, it’s taking 2 months for it to go through. I used to get calls from buyer, We’re going through this refinance for 3 months with this company. Like I’m just getting, you know, tossed around here. I don’t know what’s going on. Can you close this? Yeah, no problem. We’ll close it in a week. Boom. Cause all the tools are here. Mm-hmm. And the staff. I mean, I remember the days when appraisals, we used to have to wait til the film could develop. I mean, that’s likePre-fax machine, this one. No, the fax machine was coiled up. I love it. Tell us about your involvement with AIME. I mean, uh, we’ve been to a bunch of AIME events. Yeah. Your involvement is pretty significant there. So I think when I became a broker, the part that was interesting is that you feel like you’re on an island. And AIME did, especially during COVID, every week did a, like a video, an online call to get into it and it just kind of set your mindset and things like that. So I think it’s important because AIME really, for me, I h- I had instant friends that I could call and say, Hey, how you doing this? How you doing that? Mm-hmm. You know, quite a few. And then I really found my niche in the women’s mortgage network cause there’s some badass bitches in there. Oh, yeah. There are. For sure. I think that’s what cool about the broker side, like everybody kind of for the most part is a big community where like you guys have been more involved in it than I ever have been. But it’s cool to see like companies from different areas talking to each other to help each other, to build, to say, Hey, you know, I tried this. This didn’t work. Tried this instead. Yeah. Like where else do you really get that? You know, I don’t think on the retail side or like at a bank. No one’s talking to each other. Yeah. No one saying, This is just how we do it. We were at one retail place and another one called us back like- Oh, forget it. Yeah, you’re not talking to each other. If you end up bouncing into, if you’re out to dinner and you ran into somebody from another retail company, your phone started blowing up from your boss. Like, Who were you talking to? Why? I’m like, Oh, my. No, everyone’s a big family. So it’s fun in that aspect I think. So you’re a mom, a grandmother, a wife, a successful loan officer. How do you balance all that? And never mind 2 weeks ago you were a business owner. Yeah. Right? Throw that into the mix as well. Yeah. That on top of it. It’s just mind-boggling. One more time now. Yeah. Yeah, uh, I think the biggest part was, uh, honestly, my husband was super supportive. I think, you know, he’s a saint for being married to me as long as he has been. How long is that? Uh, 33 years. So, uh, and I’ll come up with some crazy ideas and he’ll be like, Okay. And just goes with it, you know? 33 years. Uh, yeah. And so I think that, you know, and- As old as Craig is, as long as I’ve been alive. Ow. No shot. No shot at you, Michelle. No. It’s all good. I know you can take it. You got some thick skin. Oh, yeah. I mean, and I also have a daughter that’s gonna be 38, so you know, it’s fun. Um, but I think that it’s just been, it’s been support with family for sure has gotten me where I’m at. You know, my son and my daughter were both competitive athletes when they were young. And my son played travel hockey, so a lot of our time was spent in ice rinks and that’s where I wrote the most mortgages was while I was at practice and whatnot cause then it wasn’t online applications at that point. You know, Matt will joke now that he got most of his mortgage experience responding to emails on the BlackBerry on the way to a hockey tournament. Cause that’s, like he was emailing while I was driving. That’s what we just did. You didn’t talk and text? No, we didn’t have that then. We’re talking fax, BlackBerry, RIM chats. Didn’t have it was pretty slow back then. You know, you had the ball. Just those little button balls. So I think that, you know, that’s been the part, you know, I justWe would take time out for the family, I would go to all the sporting events, but then, you know, at night you just plug in and you work half the night. People don’t see that side of it, from loan officers in, in the industry, even operations. Mm-hmm. Like, it just doesn’t stop. Like people are like, Oh, take the day off. I’m like, There’s no days off. Like, there’s a 100% chance there’s not aI don’t remember there being a day where I didn’t answer my phone. At least one time, mortgage related. You can’t be successful if you don’t. I, I just don’t know how- Maybe Christmas Day is the only day of the year. And even then, sometimes probably not. Yeah. But it’s, doesn’t matter. It doesn’t. Christmas Day, yeah, but then if somebody’s calling you from the office to talk to you wishing you a merry Christmas and they have a problem that’s closing on the 26th. Yeah, and then you have to get done. There’s always something like, it’s just running back. Which I think is the f- which I think is the exciting part about the industry too. Or you have a family member who’s there for Christmas and they’re like, What are the interest rates like? I’m like, I just want one day. I don’t wanna know anything right now. Well, we do the crazy part, umYears ago I was coached by a company, Buffini & Company, and so the idea came out about the pies for Thanksgiving. So we give out, Tuesday night, we give out massive pies- Awesome. to anyone who closed that year. Oh, cool. So then you’re on everyone’s Thanksgiving table. And they’re like, Oh, where’d you get that big pie? Oh, my mortgage girl. Mortgage meme this year. Mortgage meme this year. Do you make the pies? Oh, no. Sam’s Club. No? Disappointed. No, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. We do make the tortilla, the pork pie. I could see you making them. Yeah. I don’t know why. Just like the whole family in there-just pumping out pies for like a week. Right out of New Hampshire. Yeah. Cutting the apples, going apple picking the weekend before. Peeling them all out. I would n- I would not be able to do that. No. He don’t wanna eat my cooking. The real question is, did you bring my maple syrup today? I forgot it. I know you did. Like typical loan officer right here. I’m the shit bag. I’ll shit bag. Promises me maple syrup. This is going on like 3 years now, for the record. She’s like, I’m gonna bring the maple syrup. What’s the story with this maple syrup? Oh, we make it. Oh, you do? Yeah. You can’t make a pie? We’ll know. Paul cooks all the maple syrup down, the sap down to make maple syrup. Do you have it like on your, on your property? On our ya- in our yard, yeah. That’s awesome. And I drink whiskey, make Old Fashioneds with it. Sorry. I’m like- Even better. the maple syrup. That’s crazy. Yeah. It gives us something to do in the winter when we’re too scared. Gives us something to do. We just drink Old Fashioneds. Make maple syrup. It, you know. Pepe’s gotta, you know. So the granddaughters even get in on it. It’s so funny. How- how many granddaughters? So how-Yeah. How is it working with your son? I love it. Yeah? Wasn’t so great working with my daughter. No? Love her. Yeah. Love her, love her. She worked with me through college and whatnot. But then 10 years ago she opened an escape room and she’s across the street. It’s perfect. Hey, I don’t think my wife and my daughter would ever work well together. Mm-mm. They can barely do homework together. Gets a lot of screaming. I just don’t think my wife’s working with either one of my kids. To be honest with you. Based on the morning routine, I don’t think, I don’t think that’s happening. It has to be the right personality for like both to make that work. Oh, I just let Matt be in charge. Cause he’s better at it than I am. She lets Matt think he’s in charge. Matt, if you’re watching this, you are not in charge. No. No. You’ve known your mom for a minute. He doesn’t think he’s in charge of you. No. He knows better. That’s just in your head, you think he does. Well, how about he calls me this morning, he’sAnd I said, Hi, and he said, Hi. He said, uh, Just a heads-up, have you left the house yet? You know you have a ride. I was like, I’m on my way out the door. He’s like, Okay. Just make sure you get there in time. He didn’t wanna come? No. He’s home, he’s home writing loans. That ain’t good. He’s busy making money. He could’ve been emailing the bl- on the BlackBerry on the way down. Poor Matt. So what’s the message that you wanna share with women in this industry? Or like why do you wanna help women in this industry so much? Because I really think that sometimes we get a little bit of a bad rap. If you’re an assertive woman, you’re called a bitch. You could deliver the same message as me and I think sometimes it’s different. Mm-hmm. And I also think as women we try to coddle and take care of our customers more than needs to be. Um, we have to inform them and let them make their decisions. And so I think that it’s like to find your right tribe to be with that’s gonna help you grow and elevate. And guess what? It doesn’t matter if you make more than your significant other. Doesn’t matter who’s where in the relationship cause it’s together. And so just to be able to grow. Find your spot where you need to be. I think it’s tough too for- It’s okay to be successful. for women, especially like as you start to have families and everything. This is a very demanding job where you’re out a lot, you’reThere’s events, there’s traveling or, you know, especially as you get busier, you want to be more involved and to be away- Yeah. is tough, especially when you have kids. Like, my wife doesn’t work anymore, she stays home. Like, so she gives me that support that I need. I- You have 4 children? So she has 5. Yeah. Oh yeah, definitely. Maybe 6, she counts as 2. I’m the big child. You know, but it’s great. But the other way around, like you don’t see it as much but, you know, there are someWe know multiple people that- Yeah. you know, they’re the breadwinner and they’reYou have to have sup- somebody. There has to be a give or take. It’s a very tough job to, to be successful, to not be more than just a regular job. Like it’s not a 9:00 to 5:00. A- and it’s the right person in your life because IYou know, I’ll be like, Oh, I’m meeting with a first time home buyer. I’m meeting with a client and he’ll say if he’s a first time home buyer or not. Know how long it’s gonna take. Cause then he gauges, he gauges howOh, that’s a little bit longer cause it’s the first time, or more questions. See you in 2 hours. Yeah. Like he just knows that. Yeah. Which is great. And I think that’s the bigger part, right? You have to find somebody who’s gonnaAnd your other part may not be your significant other at home, it might be your partner in the office. Right? Who’s your support staff who’s gonna take over and help you when you’re down, and who’s your manager who’s gonna help you pick up the pieces when you’re just, All right, I’m done. I’m at wit’s end. I can’t figure out this deal. How do I make that work? It’s finding your tribe. I never thought of it that way. That’s all you gotta be. That’s why I go to Craig H. Walk into his office, I’m like, I hate everybody. He’s like, No, take 3 breaths, walk back to your office. You’re fine. Get out now. Quitting being a little girl. You know the days when you have to have, like, 8 bank statements and draw a map on where the monies are coming from and going to? No, I don’t, so. Get that out of your head, you’re at Milestone now. I get it. I get it. But you know- Yeah, you just have-like sometimes you just have- Have Matt do that. Yes. That’s Matt’s job. I can imagine you with a highlighter going like this. It’s all bad. It’s very bad. How do you support or mentor other women in the industry? I think being a sounding board, because you know what? It’s okay to have a meltdown, but then you pull up your panties and go back to work. You only have 3 minutes to cry, then go back to it. You have a really direct outlook on the mortgage industry, women in the industry. It’s very similar to the men in the industry. There’s so many times where we, we’ll just talk to a male loan officer and we’re like, Just put on your big boy pants and just go tell the client that you can’t do something or you need these documents to, to move on and get this thing done. I think that has changed since Matt’s been with me. Matt’s been with me for 5 years. Uh, he came from a, a machining background, so very specific and to the point, you know. Uh, he wasWorked for a gun manufacturer. And so he’s always like, You fluff it too much. I said, What do you mean? He’s like, You underestimate the time it’s gonna take, you overpromise. He’s like, Stop. And so he actually, being someone younger coming into the industry, made me change my ways. I have Craig for that. Yeah. So I was like, Yeah, we could get that done. Yeah, ship it. He’s like, I need 72 pages of docu-It’s fine. Right. But that’sYou need that balance, right? So I think that that helps. I think it just makes us better. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, it elevates the expectation. And sometimes you share your struggles with somebody and you realize what you’re struggling about is nothing. It’s, you know, the good old werewolf in your closet when you were a little kid. It’s not there. It’s in your head. Mm-hmm. Just gotta get through it Cause I think that’s a big part of it too. I think it’s confidence level for a lot of people. Yeah. And then also, like, understanding the people you’re dealing with. Like when you’re setting the expectations, it depends more on the person than it does on anything. Yeah. How quick can they get you things? How competent are they at what you’re asking for? And knowing the situation and reading that can really help to make those decisions that you say or those expectations that you set- And it’s-a lot more accurate. especially if it’s a new partner you’re trying to impress. Mm-hmm. A new business partner. And you’re like, Oh my gosh, I can’t let anything go wrong. And then the borrower, you know, buys a new car and you gotta forget about it. Yeah, things are gonna happen. Yeah. Yeah. It’s human. But you’re up front with the, with the business partner. You tell him, Hey, listen, this guy bought a new car. And they’re like, Seen that movie before. I’ve had realtors call me to say, Um, we’re doing the final walkthrough. There’s a new car. Thank God it was a company car. I was like, Oh no. OhYou know. So where do you see the future for women in the mortgage industry? I think we’re going to see more come in because it really was a guys world for a long time. And I think that women are more confident and, because of the information out there, m- more women are getting involved in finances. You know, you think back 30 years ago, women didn’t even do the checkbooks at home, in most cases. Like my husband ran all the bills, did all that stuff. And then I was like, Oh no, no, no, I need it now. And then I, you know, screwed it up and, and then we figured out how to make it better. For sure. So I think there’s that, that part. I think we’re gonna have some more come into the industry and more to realize that there’s freedom with it too. I think you seeI, I would say it’s probably a more male-dominated profession on the LO side. Operations is much more female. Absolutely. But there’s soIn my opinion, there’s so many good operations people that would be such good loan officers, but they’re e- afraid to take that leap. And whether that’s because of how it’s compensated where, you know, your operations is more of a guaranteed salary- Mm-hmm. when they’re worried about, you know, having to struggle to go get the business. But a lot of these processors or LOAs like- They’re much better than the loan officers. They know more than the LOs. They’re amazing. You know, it’s just they’re gettingIt’s just there’s 2 sides to the business where you have to know what you’re doing- Yeah. which typically the processors and LOAs know a lot more than some of the LOs. I started in ops. I think a lot of the best LOs did have some sort of an- Yeah. ops background or are more involved in it than others. I started off as a l- as a loan officer assistant, and I learned everything not to do. You know? I was like, Oh, no. That’s not gonna go well. Because you see the mistakes that you can then prepare for ahead of time so you don’t have those mistakes. And, and that’s the best training ever is all the mistakes. Fuel by fire. Mm-hmm. Get thrown in there and you’re like, Oh, don’t do that again. I think the average age of, like, loan officers statistically is somewhere in their mid to late 50s. Let’s say it’s primarily dominated by men. I really see that shifting and I, I, I can see more 22 to 35-year-old females getting into the business now than I ever have. And I think that’s amazing because they’re way better communicators. They’re gonna understand. They’re a little bit more detailed. Uh, so I think it’s gonna step up both sides. Sometimes they’re more compassionate. Yeah. And I think it’s gonna make men in the business do their job better-because there are someTh- There’s a lot of high-powered women out there that are closing 50, 100 plus million dollars a year and they’re, they’re writing the story- Mm-hmm. and the how-to manual on how to achieve that, make all the hockey games, go to the kids sporting events- Yeah. do all that. They’re just had30 years ago when you started in this business, there wasn’t a playbook- Yeah. for the stay-at-home mom or, you know, the, the young lady who just graduated from college to go into the mortgage business or advertising or marketing. It’s like, Uh, let’s not. I wonder what the statistic is how many people came out of college or just started their work career and said, I’m gonna join mortgages. Everyone, like, fell into it. Nobody- Same. sought out to go, you know. I got an offer to doto be a clerical assistant and that’s how I got in. You know, it’s not like, Oh, I dream to be a loan officer. Yeah. Yeah. don’t think many people do. Right? So that’s the part that I think that that narrative is changing and more people are like, Hey, this is really a good career. I think even teaching kids at a young age financial literacy. Like, I’m big at my house on financial literacy and just making sure my kids understand what a dollar is, what it means, what you have to do to get to it. I think that’s going to hopefully, in my opinion, I’d like to see, you know, the, the industry a little bit younger, right? Because- Mm-hmm. listen, we’re dinosaurs at this point in our careers. Yeah. We’re not the best. we can say we’re the best. We had a great run. And here we are. But the technology piece, we have the experience at this point. Mm-hmm. WeIf we can get that experience out of our heads and communicate that to the next generation, especially at Milestone. I mean, we’reI’m not going out telling all my war stories and secrets to every Tom, Dick and Harry in the business. I’ll tell them as much as I, I feel is needed. But, uh, to keep some of those, those secrets in the head. I think it’sI think the industry as a whole isIt’s, it’s gonna get very diverse all the way across. Well, and I think with the technology, it’s, it’s quicker. Right? It frees up time. I mean, I mean, it would be normal 60 days we’re gonna close a loan, right? Now, if you told someone, 60 days. They’re like, What’s wrong? Oh, yeah. What’s wrong? What’s wrong with the house? Does it need to be built, you know? Somebody tells you it’s gonna take 30 days- Oh, forget it. to close a loan. I’m like, What are you guys doing for the other 15? Yeah. I need 15 days. Craig’s looking at me right now. Hope everybody saw his face. That look was like, Fern, stop telling everybody it’s 15 days. It’s 15 days if you’re really grinding on it and it’s nice out. Well, no, no, no. It depends on the location of the property because of appraisal. And the borrower. Well, it’sThat’s the truth. It’s the borrower. make the process 10 times easier for you. Today it’s not. Well, no, no. It depends on the location of the property cause of appraisal. And the borrower. Well, it’s, that’s the truth. So excited. It’s the borrower. It’s the barber. Yeah. You’re a consumer and you’re watching this. I hope you are. Just get your docs in when your processor or your loan officer asks for it. It will make the process ten times easier for you. Absolutely. It’s so much easier. And that’s how we get to where we are. That’s it. Well, Michelle, thank you so much for joining us. If you’re a consumer and you’re watching this, I hope you are, just get your docs in when your processor or your loan officer asks for it. Just watch. Yeah. Absolutely. It’s so much easier. And that’s how we get to where we are. Mm-hmm. That’s right. That’s it. Well, Michelle, thank you so much for joining us. Oh, my God. Thanks for coming down. I’m excited to see- I can’t wait. what you can do with all this free time now. Just watch. Welcome to the team, baby. Michelle’s gonna start playing golf or something with all her free time. Oh. something with all her free time. Oh, no, no, no. I played golf on Saturday. I hit a divot. My youngest granddaughter goes, that wasn’t so good. Kids are very brutally honest. We played wiffle ball this weekend with my son’s All-Star team and my wife gets up. We did like parents versus children. And a few of the players like came way in and were like, buddy, back up. Like you’re like ten feet away. Kids response, she sucks. And then she roped one right over her head. It was hilarious. I was gasping as a picture. I was jumping up and down. It’s like, that’s my wife. Oh man, it was funny. Now she thinks that’s where Austin got her baseball swing from. It’s a whole thing. Oh, no, no, no. I played golf on Saturday. I hit a divot. My youngest granddaughter goes, Pfft. That wasn’t so good. Kids are very brutally honest. We played Wiffle ball this weekend with my son’s all-star team, and my wife gets up. We did, like, parents versus children. And, uh, a few of the players, like, came way in, and we’re like, Buddy, back up. Like, you’re, like, 10 feet away. Kid’s response? She sucks. And then she roped one right over her head. It was hilarious. This guy. I was jumpingThere’s a picture. I was jumping up and down. It’s like, That’s my wife. Oh, man. It was funny. Dasha thinks that’s where Austin got his baseball swing from. It’s a whole thing. You had no contact on that at all. Yeah. It was, it was- It’s all, you, it was all her. It was on the phone. Uh, well, thank you. Thank you. We’ll see you guys next time. Thank you.