127 Years of Business: How Servedwell Built New Bedford’s Best Restaurants

00:00:00:03 – 00:00:14:08
Craig Snell
All right, welcome back to Mortgage Daddies. Today we have Will Silverstein here with us today. How you doing, my man?

00:00:06:00 – 00:00:14:08
Will Silverstein
Doing great. It’s been a, uh, solid day so far. Good day to, uh, start to wind things down before dinner service.

00:00:12:20 – 00:00:20:00
Craig Snell
Oh, yeah. You’ve had a busy, uh— it’s gotta be a few years at this point with everything going on between business and personal life.

00:00:19:22 – 00:00:36:20
Will Silverstein
Uh, yeah. I mean, busy is, uh, I don’t know, I guess it’s how you interpret. If it’s all, all you know, you just kinda keep going task to task, right? I mean, sim— I’m sure it’s similar to you guys. But, uh, yeah, it’s, uh— w— what’s the next, uh, challenge, I guess, so to say. The days and the weeks just seem to go by faster and faster.

00:00:36:21 – 00:00:51:18
Will Silverstein
Maybe the, the list, the list gets bigger, right? And it’s certainly not making progress on the list, but, you know, at least— just keep adding to it— keep working on the top 5 things, I guess, right? That’s how it goes.

00:00:51:20 – 00:01:09:08
Vernon Miles
I’m Vernon. I run the top mortgage brokerage in Massachusetts with over 20 years of experience.

00:00:56:00 – 00:01:07:00
Craig Snell
I’m Craig. I’ve done $100 million consistently since my second full year in the business, and I’m Massachusetts’ top mortgage broker.

00:01:07:00 – 00:01:09:08
Vernon Miles
We’re the Mortgage Daddies. Real advice, real stories, and real results. Let’s get going.

00:01:09:08 – 00:01:26:10
Vernon Miles
I feel like mortgages and hospitality and restaurant business are the same. Like, it’s just turnover. You guys do a great job with keeping your employees and everybody, and the culture there. I’ve been going into all of your restaurants for years on end. Thank you. I know Craig has, too, and it’s like, it’s cool to walk into, like, a local restaurant that you know is family-owned, and see the same bartender.

00:01:26:11 – 00:01:43:20
Vernon Miles
Maybe that’s where I sit most of the time, or the same couple waiters and waitresses. And there’s not a lot of restaurants in the area or anywhere you travel where you can s— consistently see the same type of people. Like, is there something you guys have going on at the restaurant that, or the whole entire corporation? I mean, tell us a little bit about the number of restaurants— well, I mean, yeah— and the culture.

00:01:43:21 – 00:01:44:16
Will Silverstein
Yeah.

00:01:44:16 – 00:02:07:05
Will Silverstein
I guess, you know, the story starts, uh, late 1800s, actually, out here on Union Street. Oh, wow. So this— I’m the 5th generation in the family’s business. So the, uh, whatever great, great, great, you know, that would be, uh, started out with a backpack, um, sewing shoes and clothes for the sailors. And that evolved over time into a clothing store, uh, that was named after the family’s last name.

00:02:07:05 – 00:02:28:16
Will Silverstein
There was a few locations in Water Street in the South End, and, and they moved over time. Uh, the last location that I was aware, or, uh, well, the last location on this street was at the top of Union Street across from the Monsena Club. Yep. Um, and it was a, you know, I guess in m— modern day con— uh, comparison would be something like Nordstrom’s. Mm-hmm. Like that. But, uh, and that was a family business.

00:02:28:16 – 00:02:51:01
Will Silverstein
And there’s, you know, the, my favorite story about it is, we tell it at training for the new hires ’cause it’s all part of the culture and beliefs and of, you know, culture’s a crazy word, too, right? We, we, you know, everyone’s got it. But, um, is the guy came to return a pair of tires. We sell clothes, but you know what? Take, take the, take the tires, sell the tires, give the— you know, it’s about, uh, making friends today, we’ll make money tomorrow.

00:02:51:01 – 00:03:11:04
Will Silverstein
And so we’ve been in, you know, consecutive business, I don’t know, 127 years, something of that variation. So I’m the 5th generation. My son is the, uh, hopeful 6th generation. He’s about, uh, 14 months, so— he doesn’t know, he doesn’t know, but, uh, he’s getting ready. He likes the restaurants at least. He sees the lights in the kitchen and runs in the kitchen. So, uh, you know, that’s a start.

00:03:11:04 – 00:03:29:20
Will Silverstein
But, um, yeah, about 30, 30-ish years ago, a little over 30 years ago, uh, we opened the first— or not we, as my— I was about my son’s age, which is cool in hindsight, right? That’s awesome. My father opened his, his first restaurant, uh, which was Not Your Average Joe’s on Route 6. Um, closed down the clothing store a few years later, started that transition.

00:03:29:21 – 00:03:49:21
Will Silverstein
But I say all that to say that we’re still in the same business. We’re still serving people, right? And we’re, you know, been longtime members of New Bedford and have r— rode, rode the waves of, of the ups and, and the downs of the area. But, uh, you know, we, we love this area for the same reason that everyone else does. It’s, uh, the, it’s, uh, authentic, I would say.

00:03:49:21 – 00:04:08:18
Will Silverstein
And I think that we’ve been, you know, very fortunate that the community’s been great to us, and, and, you know, the community is th— therefore gr— great to the people who we get to work with, and our employees are great for us. So it’s this synonymous relationship in the hospitality industry with tipping and all the other factors that come into play.

00:04:14:12 – 00:04:21:00
Craig Snell
And with the Not Your Average Joe’s thing, just so everybody who can kind of understand, started at one location. Yeah. What did that turn into?

00:04:21:01 – 00:04:45:23
Will Silverstein
Not Your Average Joe’s was— I think that the final number was something like 28 locations over six states. I think over time there’s probably 34 restaurants. The farthest north was Nashua, New Hampshire. The farthest south was in Virginia, in the Maryland area. There’s a few different clusters in Philadelphia as well. It was, you know, it was somewhat— the menu was somewhat similar to what it is there now.

00:04:45:24 – 00:05:05:13
Will Silverstein
The locations looked more like, you know, I’d say— the restaurants you’d see at a mall. It was in a lot of mall locations, things like that. The vision was always, we want to have chef quality food in the suburbs. It’s kind of how we had these larger menus because we want people to come multiple times a week.

00:05:05:14 – 00:05:17:12
Will Silverstein
We rely on people come multiple times a week in the city. You could afford for some people to come once a week, but here, you know, you really need that to be that, and you got to— you can’t— you got to have something for the grandmother. You got to have something for the kids. You can’t survive the no vote.

00:05:17:14 – 00:05:47:19
Will Silverstein
So that’s what you know, Joe’s was— very value based pricing. And that seemed to, to resonate in the suburbs over time. And you know, with that would— is, you know, the company got up to about 2,500 employees. And it wasn’t— say, my father was still described as an entrepreneur and so kind of lost that— it was more so managing a business, but also managing a lot of other people’s money and different preferences.

00:05:47:19 – 00:06:09:23
Will Silverstein
And, you know, people would— people might say, well, you know, you can get cheaper silverware. You know, what’s going to notice? Or why don’t you buy the chairs for all the restaurants at once and say, have a better idea, you know. And it really, you know, because, you know, I’m sure you have experience in your, in your own right— is others’ other people’s money and preference— other people’s banks, whatever it may be.

00:06:09:23 – 00:06:31:17
Will Silverstein
Preferences for returns are not as long-sighted as a family business, right, to go back 25 years. And so it kind of grinds on you, wears on you. So think about 2018, which is— you know, meanwhile this whole time I’m— this is from, you know, I graduated college in 2017. This is happening this whole— my whole 25 years of my life.

00:06:31:17 – 00:06:48:06
Will Silverstein
So I’m kind of watching it and being involved. I, you know, wrote my college essay on this— it’s really the story of my life to that point— is, played a lot of hockey, you know, hockey driving an hour and a half, hour, average game. And I wrote my college essay on the— NBA. I got in the car because he put the phone on speakerphone.

00:06:48:06 – 00:07:13:00
Will Silverstein
I loved listening to it. So. But meanwhile, I didn’t really understand the business and what was going on then. And so that, that sort of all happened— him leaving Not Your Average Joe’s and buying back the original restaurant coincided with me graduating college. And then so, you know, that’s when in 2019, the Black Whale came along, I moved home. I worked in a restaurant in New York City, very fine dining restaurant, great experience.

00:07:13:01 – 00:07:27:10
Will Silverstein
Uh, wanted, you know, wanted to learn. Basically, I looked at it like my master’s education, and I was, you know, like convinced that nothing else was good enough and I was gonna stay in New York till I was 30. And then COVID happened, and that’s sort of how our paths crossed again.

00:07:27:12 – 00:07:48:11
Craig Snell
That’s crazy. And then when your dad sold them, I f— like I, I don’t know a ton, ton about the story. Yeah, yeah. I’ve learned it a lot now, but then kind of came back home and like really invested back into the community here. Like to me, from just an outside perspective, and I don’t know all the details, there were some restaurants around. Not great. Some of them were okay. They’d come and go.

00:07:48:11 – 00:08:05:10
Craig Snell
Downtown was really kind of like falling apart a little bit as far as places to go. I remember like I, when I turned 21, there was like a couple places to go. Not a lot of great restaurants. Chain restaurants were still kind of popular— 100%— but kind of falling off, and there just weren’t a lot of options.

00:08:05:10 – 00:08:23:20
Craig Snell
People would say, “Hey, where do you want to go to eat? You want to go somewhere nice?” “Gotta go to Providence. Gotta go to Providence.” Yeah, yeah. Then all of a sudden your dad sold the chain side, the franchise side of Not Your Average Joe’s, and then started popping up restaurants at a high quality. Like— yeah— you completely— I don’t think you guys realize how much you’ve shifted what’s down here.

00:08:23:21 – 00:08:25:00
Craig Snell
What’s down here?

00:08:25:01 – 00:08:42:13
Will Silverstein
I mean, yeah, I, I appreciate that. I think that we’ve kind of been along for the ride of obviously what’s happened in the city, but also what’s happened in the restaurant industry, and they’re sort of not much different than what, you know, uh, yeah, here go, you know, here goes on society. And I say here because I’m—

00:08:42:13 – 00:09:12:00
Will Silverstein
I, I don’t claim to be a, you know, economist, but the, the— the death to the middle class and the restaurant industry and all those chains, for example, those are sort of the middle class of restaurants, right? Mm-hmm. You’re either the mom and pop, like, you know, the places that we love, Friendly Pizza, you know— yeah— like that. Or, um, or you gotta be an experiential thing. You know, there’s been, um— it’s really forced you to, um, force people to, to push and pull all those levers and kind of like taking the, the city food to the suburbs, just taking the city experience.

00:09:12:00 – 00:09:27:23
Will Silverstein
So you go to every restaurant now and everyone has table lamps. And there, there’s things like that have happened and, you know, uh, uh, someone said to me the other day that resonated with me is like, “When you leave the restaurant after you go out to eat, would you rather say food was good, or would you rather say that was fun?”

00:09:27:23 – 00:09:50:12
Will Silverstein
And I think that’s sort of been how restaurants have evolved, sort of before COVID, but definitely after COVID. You think about, uh, in New York City, places like Tao— yeah— like that’s the whole next generation— experience— of restaurants. It’s like, yeah, like there’s a great chef, James Beard-winning chef in there. He’s, uh— he’s, “I don’t cook.” I mean, I’ve eaten enough food in my life. I got that. I just got, if the, if the design’s good, the music’s good, and the drinks are good, it’s awesome.

00:09:50:17 – 00:10:10:22
Will Silverstein
And I think that’s, you know, I think that we’ve sort of ro— rode that wave, uh, and seen that happen in other places. You know, you travel to Florida, you know, you see it. And I think that’s sort of the, the thing that we, we, we have, uh, have, have learned over, over time and, um, sort of how we can, you know, create the full experience.

00:10:10:22 – 00:10:21:17
Will Silverstein
The, the big 3 pillars for us are obviously food. At the end of the day, we’re in the restaurant business. Uh, service and then design. E— equally, equally important. And, um, on f— you know, on, on, uh, design is, is expensive. Yeah.

00:10:21:19 – 00:10:41:19
Vernon Miles
I mean, Craig and I were just at Not Your Average Joe’s— in our office. Uh, we started Milestone Mortgage Solutions at 77 State Road right next door to Not Your Average Joe’s. We ate, we ate there a lot. I would say that we ate at Not Your Average Joe’s at— weekly— at least 4 or 5 times a week.

00:10:41:21 – 00:11:02:02
Vernon Miles
And that’s counting— maybe we only had lunch there 3 times, but then our wives or our kids were like, “I want Not Your Average Joe’s.” So now we’re having, like, dinner there. We just went back there, and it blows my mind every single time I go into Black Whale, um, uh, Candela, now National Club. These places are all jam-packed.

00:11:02:03 – 00:11:21:19
Vernon Miles
Like, I hadn’t been back to, you know, Not Your Average Joe’s in a hot minute, and I’m like, it’s 12:45, 1:00, we, we had a meeting over there, and the place is just packed all the time. You walk in— it’s funny that we, we brought up, like, the consistency of your staff. Some of the bartenders and waiters and waitresses were still there. And we’ve been out of that building for 3 or 4 years. I’m like, this is amazing. And you guys, it’s not like you guys shift. I see a lot of, like, bigger restaurants or people who own a couple restaurants, they start moving their employees around.

00:11:21:20 – 00:11:39:10
Vernon Miles
Like, I live right next to the Sail Loft. Like, I literally think I eat at one of your restaurants pretty much on a daily basis. Like, between Sail Loft, Not Your Average Joe’s, Black Whale. Uh, we have, we have people fly in from Washington, loan officers, uh, North Carolina, and they’re like, “Hey, can we go to the Black Whale?”

00:11:39:12 – 00:11:57:20
Vernon Miles
Our investor at UWM, Josh, first thing he does, gets off, gets into his hotel room, takes a shower, and goes to the Black Whale. It’s wild. And it’s just— it’s crazy, man. It’s crazy to me— the consistency that you guys have from a menu. The service is outstanding. I mean, I’ve never had a bad experience. If the food’s bad or something comes out wrong, it’s like, “Let me go get you another one,” and it’s out in, like, 2 seconds.

00:11:57:20 – 00:12:19:22
Vernon Miles
It’s just— the training programs that you guys have are, th— they have to be great, because it’s consistent across every restaurant. And everybody knows me pretty well. Craig’s gonna make fun of me, and this should probably get cut from this episode immediately, but— I, I tell people all the time, my favorite restaurant is McDonald’s. Because when you’re in a jam, you’re in the car, you’re driving.

00:12:19:22 – 00:12:37:17
Vernon Miles
My, my wife is from New Jersey, you’re on 95, the only place for food is McDonald’s. I’ve never been to a McDonald’s where the cheeseburger tastes different than the other location. So it’s almost— it’s like the equivalent— I mean, your food is way better than McDonald’s when it comes to food. I’m not talking about that. But consistency for me is the most important thing.

00:12:37:19 – 00:12:52:23
Vernon Miles
I’ve never gone somewhere and just had consistent great meals. And the, the atmosphere is awesome, right? But the drinks, you guys do a, a, a great job all the way around. But the service that you talk about, anybody who hasn’t been to one of your restaurants is, is missing out for sure.

00:12:53:04 – 00:13:10:02
Will Silverstein
Is, I think that that office that you’re talking about, I think that was the Joe’s office originally when they first opened. Oh, really? Um, yeah, it’s the white building out front, right? Yeah. Yeah, I’m pretty confident. You know, this is, like, where the memories get faded, and I was young. Um, but yeah, I think that they, you know, they used that space, uh, for a good amount of years.

00:13:10:05 – 00:13:29:00
Will Silverstein
And then there was Baker Books there, and, you know, over time, uh, that, that came down, too. But, um, I would say we, you know, for this, I think the, th— thing we try to implement in the staff is there’s a major difference between service and hospitality. And we talk about service as the acts of what you do and the technical part, but hospitality is how you make people feel.

00:13:29:02 – 00:13:30:15
Will Silverstein
Jesus.

00:13:30:17 – 00:13:31:09
Vernon Miles
I mean, even—

00:13:31:09 – 00:13:32:16
Will Silverstein
That’s my buddy Pete.

00:13:32:16 – 00:13:35:00
Craig Snell
Probably Justin trying to get a reservation.

00:13:35:02 – 00:13:35:05
Will Silverstein
You know.

00:13:35:05 – 00:13:35:10
Will Silverstein
No, that’s Pete.

00:13:35:10 – 00:13:57:10
Will Silverstein
I, I called a few people on the walk over, and now, now they’re all calling me back. Now they’re calling back. I always dread that one. I’m like— yeah, I try to check, I try to check in right before dinner, you know? But, uh, it’s, it’s, uh, ser— service and, and hospitality. And I think that our service is okay.

00:13:57:10 – 00:14:12:21
Will Silverstein
I think that, um, but if it puts the aver— to the, to the guest, uh, hospitality i— is more important. People go— you know, they wanna be seen, they wanna be f— you know, right? They, you know, they know who you are, they know what you do, they connect, they may comment on how, you know, “How are you today? How was Super Bowl? What’s going on?” You know, et cetera. I think that, that is the, uh, that is the important part.

00:14:12:21 – 00:14:29:21
Will Silverstein
You know, recovery is an unfortunate thing, but it’s a great opportunity to double down. And you, you almost— if everything went well, it, it’s, it, you know— and this is, I hate to say this, but if, if something went wrong, and we s— and, you know, what it— if they say to me, “We should give him a f— what, you know, give him a gift card.” “Okay, how much?” “50.” “Do 100. Every time, double it, right?”

00:14:29:22 – 00:14:45:15
Will Silverstein
And then, you know, and people are, “Oh my God,” you know, you got 5 people, 6 people in the office being like, “I went to, I went to Black Whale last night. I can’t tell you how overcooked my steak was, but I— you want to know what’s crazy? They gave me a $200 gift card because it was my birthday, and they felt so bad, right?”

00:14:45:15 – 00:15:05:09
Will Silverstein
And, like, that’s like— oh, yeah, that’ll— you know, I think that’s, that’s gonna be the, the level with— it’s, once again, experiences and blowing people’s minds. And, you know, I think, like, our goal is, I had this j— I had this joke that I would like to install microphones at the bottom of the stairs at the restaurant, because I wanna know what people say to each other when they get to the bottom of the stairs. And if, if the first, if the first thing they say is, “Do you wanna go here after?” Or, “You know, you wanna drive with me?” We failed.

00:15:05:12 – 00:15:30:24
Will Silverstein
It needs to be— “We need to call our neighbors, and we need to bring them here next week. That was fucking amazing.” Yeah. Right? That’s sort of, like, that’s sort of what, you know, w— what we’re going for. But I, you know, and, and how we got there is we have a lot of employees who worked at, at, at Not Your Average Joe’s prior. There is a lot of people, you know, for example, at the National Club, both, uh, the chef and the general manager, Michelle and Luciano, have been with the company for over 25 years in their role.

00:15:31:02 – 00:15:51:01
Will Silverstein
Uh, we’re very fortunate to have some people with us for over 35 years, uh, particularly, you know, at, at, um, in the, at the corporate level, but in, in the management teams, too. And that’s, uh, you know, they, they’ve really bought in into to what we, to what made my grandfather successful. That, that entire story kind of all ties back together— yeah— in, in terms of what we do.

00:15:51:01 – 00:16:10:24
Will Silverstein
I still hear a lot of people who, you know, talk about Silverstein’s, and, and, and I think that, you know, the, the suit tailoring experience kind of is similar to the menu, the order taking experience. And, you know, and so that, that’s a— I think that’s the one thing that we could really isolate that we try to do, uh, obsessively. Um, you know, the cleanliness of facility, all those things matter, too.

00:16:10:24 – 00:16:28:24
Will Silverstein
But really, you know, m— making people, making people feel seen. So, you know, what— what— whether, you know, bringing food to their house if they’re not feeling great, and what are those opportunities. Haven’t seen this person in a while, just call them, see how they’re doing. I think, you know, the simple things that are obvious parts of society, but integrating them into our daily business makes a big deal.

00:16:29:04 – 00:16:38:16
Vernon Miles
Yeah, that’s huge. On a, uh, not so serious note, what is your favorite meal and at what restaurant? I mean, you have so many— to pick from.

00:16:38:19 – 00:16:49:21
Will Silverstein
Yeah, no, I, 100%. I think that food-wise, Candela’s my favorite restaurant right now. I say right now, be— you know, kind of go through phases. If I eat there too much, move on to something different.

00:16:50:02 – 00:16:54:01
Vernon Miles
But what’s your dish at Candela?

00:16:54:01 – 00:17:07:06
Will Silverstein
Uh, veal chop. Veal chop. It, it’s— I think a lot of times when we, uh, eat veal, it’s in, like, a Parm or some pounded preparation, and in, you know, chop preparation, it, it’s, it’s unmatched.

00:17:07:07 – 00:17:08:01
Vernon Miles
Looks like we know what we’re doing for dinner tonight.

00:17:08:01 – 00:17:12:23
Will Silverstein
I know it’s— a little bit on the— but marsala sauce, all that, all that variation is— all the food there— yeah— is great.

00:17:13:00 – 00:17:13:11
Craig Snell
All the food.

00:17:13:11 – 00:17:17:04
Will Silverstein
Is great.

00:17:13:16 – 00:17:17:04
Craig Snell
That brick chicken has gotta be the best chicken I’ve ever— oh— had in my life.

00:17:17:05 – 00:17:32:01
Will Silverstein
Okay, yeah. It, Candela’s, you know, a, a great concept and it’s Italian, but there’s a lot of brick oven cooking, or not brick oven, but, you know, uh, thing, things like that, uh, that you can kinda put under the veil. I think that our restaurants are, uh, not authentic, but authentic in what, you know, the, the vision is of it.

00:17:32:02 – 00:17:44:11
Will Silverstein
And, you know, how, um— I mean, I think, you know, our next step is how we differentiate our restaurants further.

00:17:44:11 – 00:17:54:16
Craig Snell
I feel like you guys have a vis— like, a, a vision, but you always— or, like, a normal vision to a point. Like, an Italian restaurant. Yeah. They’re everywhere, but you put your own twist on it. National Club, same thing.

00:17:54:18 – 00:18:10:16
Will Silverstein
100%. We, we, you know, and a lot of it comes from travel. Traveled, uh, a lot of places, seen a lot of restaurants. I lived in New York City for about 3 years, and, you know, we, we ate out, I don’t know, 4 or 5 times a week, right? And, um, and I could tell you the restaurants that we kinda, you know, knocked off, right?

00:18:10:16 – 00:18:33:06
Will Silverstein
There’s no, there’s no new ideas out there. It, it’s pretty, you know, it’s, especially in food and the dishes themselves. I mean— yeah— uh, in, in terms of design, other things maybe more so. But, um, yeah, I think, I think that, you know, our next step is to how do we further differentiate, uh, uh, from, from our restaurants. I think our goal is to have no, uh, none of the same menu items, uh, at, at each place.

00:18:33:06 – 00:18:49:24
Will Silverstein
And I think— yeah— you know, what we try to do is realistic. I mean, it’s not what, what concepts we own and open. There’s a mill— there’s a million ideas out there, but more so, like, what does this building speak to? I mean, the Sail Loft, if, could you imagine it being anything different? It’s kinda hard in hindsight. But, but if it was in— it’d be hard to be a Mexican restaurant.

00:18:49:24 – 00:19:03:22
Will Silverstein
Wait, if it was in Nantucket— yeah— you know what— it’s the same kinda, you know, same kinda thing, and so I think that’s kinda why the menus are a little bit too similar is that we have a lot of waterfront restaurants. Yeah. And, you know— boom-boom shrimp— they’re all true and white— oysters. So. Sushi.

00:19:03:24 – 00:19:25:20
Craig Snell
I think there’s, like, a crazy backstory to all this, though. I have to listen to the whole story. You know, that a lot of people with family businesses, they die off. You get tired, people don’t wanna pick ’em back up. But with your family business, you guys have evolved a ton and shifted with the times at the exact right time. You got out of the s— the store side of things as that— yeah, yeah, yeah— was all kind of fading off and dying off.

00:19:26:01 – 00:19:26:24
Will Silverstein
Yeah, that was, uh, fortunate.

00:19:27:00 – 00:19:29:20
Craig Snell
You know, you had all the, you had all the— I mean— other bigger ones coming in.

00:19:29:21 – 00:19:37:24
Will Silverstein
We can’t say we knew what, uh, what was gonna happen with Amazon and malls, or else we wouldn’t be in the restaurant business. Yeah. I can tell you that much. We’d be doing online clothing. Or something like that.

00:19:38:00 – 00:19:57:24
Craig Snell
But to the point, you’ve always made it work. Yeah, well, a lot of hard work, yes. And then you got more into the chain side of the restaurant business. Yeah, yeah. Rode that wave. And then got out of it at the right time, found a location that needed it drastically. But honestly, if, when I would talk to people, people would be like, “Oh, there’s r— nothing’s gonna f—” N— nobody thought a restaurant was ever going to make it down where Cisco is, ever.

00:19:58:01 – 00:20:01:02
Craig Snell
Yeah, no, 100%. How many restaurants have gone in there and died since we were kids?

00:20:01:02 – 00:20:03:13
Will Silverstein
I, I don’t know the exact number of— a lot.

00:20:03:14 – 00:20:04:19
Craig Snell
How— it’s crazy—

00:20:04:21 – 00:20:08:01
Will Silverstein
well, uh, that land was sitting there in that form for maybe 5 years.

00:20:08:02 – 00:20:11:09
Craig Snell
And before that— un— untouched— it, it had rotated— oh, yeah, yeah— a couple of times.

00:20:11:11 – 00:20:26:20
Will Silverstein
They w— but it was waterfront property in, you know, in deep water area, all the other big things that people talk about. They wanna build, you know, whatever they wanna build. There was, that no one touched for 5, for 5 years, whatever it was, so.

00:20:26:22 – 00:20:31:10
Vernon Miles
Was the visionary on that— is that your dad? That you? That’s kinda sitting at the table going—

00:20:31:12 – 00:20:56:09
Will Silverstein
No, no, no. He, he’s, uh, he, he, he sees this stuff. Um, I, I see things because you sort of— I’ve been taught to see it in other variations, and now I, you know, it’s easier to see the second Ci— Cisco if there— yeah— if there was, you know, after you, you know, you see hundreds of these. Understand the under— yeah— the underlying, like, you know, uh, factors.

00:20:56:09 – 00:21:14:09
Will Silverstein
Uh, but once, you know, there’s places that are similar to— obviously we’ve seen Cisco on Nantucket, but there’s places, you know, keep hitting the state of Florida, but this way, you know, it’s where we probably go out to eat the second most besides, besides here, and it has a lot of similarities in terms of demographics, you know, in the larger scheme. But, um, you just gotta transplant these things. But he, uh, yeah, he, he, he sees, uh, he sees it.

00:21:14:10 – 00:21:20:00
Will Silverstein
I mean, it’s hard, it’s hard to say otherwise.

00:21:20:00 – 00:21:21:00
Vernon Miles
She knows that feeling.

00:21:21:01 – 00:21:35:00
Will Silverstein
My mother discourages all of it. She, uh, she, she’s, she’s out and she— she does all of our sort of design work. So they work together with the architects, but she does a lot of the interior work, fix, you know, light fixtures, uniforms, uh, pens. Anything the guest touches is what she’s, uh, she’s responsible for.

00:21:35:00 – 00:21:42:06
Vernon Miles
That’s awesome. It’s cool you guys get down to that level. I never even thought about that, like the pens, the uniforms. There’s so many decisions to be made. It’s, it’s wild.

00:21:42:10 – 00:21:58:16
Will Silverstein
Yeah. It’s, it, it’s important. I think that, like, the pen doesn’t matter as much as thinking about the pen, and that’s the message that you need to send to the team. And at the, you know, tell them all the time that if we’re crazy about wearing the right color socks with no logos that match the shoes with no logos and they’re non-slips, who’s gonna think about calling out?

00:21:58:20 – 00:22:15:21
Will Silverstein
Right? That’s, like, kind of the message we need. It’s the environment and the culture that we create. You know, I think we all learned a lot probably from Belichick and then the whole Patriots team on, you know, preparation and all these other factors. So I think that if we try to take various strokes of that or other large businesses to our, to our daily approach.

00:22:15:23 – 00:22:27:23
Vernon Miles
It’s amazing just to see you guys evolve. I mean, I remember when you guys went into the Black Whale, and it was already— it was, it was a good bit. It was, it was a great restaurant, right? Oh, yeah. And then you guys just took it to a whole nother notch, and we’re like, “I didn’t even see that coming.”

00:22:27:23 – 00:22:45:09
Vernon Miles
And then Candela, Candela came out of, like— you guys just come out of nowhere, and it’s like— and then National Club, that building sat empty. You talk about the land down where Cisco is. National Club, that end of, you know, the bottom of Union Street, I don’t even remember the— how long has that been empty? 15 years— and you guys— oh, at least.

00:22:45:13 – 00:22:55:16
Will Silverstein
Yeah, I mean, we went in there when they were not, uh, doing the renovation, and the menu board was still up, and I think the food was less than a dollar. Some of the items. Like, it wa— it was, it was a mess. It was crazy. I wish I still had the photo.

00:22:55:18 – 00:23:00:18
Vernon Miles
Yeah, it was like an old rundown bar at one point, I think, like, when I first moved here 25 years ago.

00:23:00:19 – 00:23:24:23
Will Silverstein
Um— yeah, it was like an old rundown bar at one point, I think, like, when I first moved here 25 years ago. I guess, you know, in, I, I hate talking to myself, but if— you know, we didn’t think to open Black Whale. We didn’t think to open Candela or Carmines. I mean, we, you know, give, give Albert Santos a lot of credit. He’s, uh— yeah— he, he’s another visionary for sure. For sure.

00:23:24:23 – 00:23:44:01
Will Silverstein
Um, but, um, I think that we— there’s a lot of people who own restaurants, but it’s not their primary business. I think that’s pretty common in, in, you know, the United States. But f— for a while, uh, I don’t think at Not Your Average Joe’s, we really owned any real estate, and so all— we didn’t even own the buildings the restaurants were in.

00:23:44:01 – 00:24:02:05
Will Silverstein
So we were, you know, we’re obsessed and put all our effort and literally put all our capital into the restaurants. So I think that, you know, that was what set us apart a little bit than, than others. And that’s, you know, that’s, uh, that’s all we care about. We had a, a, you know, great experience from the past, and we had a g— great team.

00:24:02:05 – 00:24:16:17
Will Silverstein
We have a team that, um, outpunches i— its weight. I mean, you guys know Peter at Candela. Yeah. He’s awesome. I, Peter, Peter, you know, he was Drake’s personal server in, in New York City. He waited on Travis and Taylor. Like, he did the whole thing in New York.

00:24:02:08 – 00:24:16:17
Will Silverstein
He was probably one of the top, certainly 1% of servers in New York City and, you know, we’re fortunate that we crossed paths. And there’s been relationships that have been developed over time from the Joe’s journey and people we met at different conferences and stuff that have now, you know, joined our team.

00:24:16:17 – 00:24:33:17
Will Silverstein
George Sines, another one. We’re looking up to— yeah— George, uh, you know, caught a second wind, and he’s, uh, he’s been instrumental in our thinking and helping us develop and professionalize the company, but just to think bigger picture and more aggressively overall. So, um, you know, it’s, it, uh, I guess that, you know, the snowball effect for, uh, whatever—

00:24:33:19 – 00:24:35:17
Craig Snell
Can’t do it without the right people in place.

00:24:35:18 – 00:24:56:20
Will Silverstein
No, no. And you know, and I guess i— i— it’s, uh, it’s fun when you’re winning and r— you know, and we need to make sure that we can, you know, continue to win and, and that, that’s what our— f— you know, there, it, there’s no— I’ve, I’ve heard you guys talk about it before. I mean, you know, work-life balance, whatever it is, there’s no, um, there’s no off switch.

00:24:56:20 – 00:25:10:15
Will Silverstein
It’s just, you know, you— you do what you need to do— when the business calls, you do it. You just, it’s just kinda like you, you live, you live through it, and you live it, and it’s, it’s, and it, you know, that’s one of the benefits of the family business. And that’s what— you know, what are we gonna talk about when we go to dinner tonight? Right. I mean, come on.

00:25:10:16 – 00:25:13:18
Will Silverstein
Like, that’s just how it, how it goes. So that’ll be, uh— brainstorm.

00:25:13:18 – 00:25:24:15
Vernon Miles
What do you like to do for fun? We’ve talked about the businesses, and I know you got young kid and— yeah, yeah— trust at home. But what do you do for fun when you finally, uh, escape all the restaurants— understand— and all the—

00:25:24:16 – 00:25:44:17
Will Silverstein
So I would say my, uh, number one thing’s being on the water. Um, you know, it, it— I can’t tell you how much it pained me to live in New York City during the summer, and it’s 90 degrees and, you know, you have in one rooftop, and the lines around the block to go there, it j— it just killed me. But, um, the, in the, in the water i— in any, in any form.

00:25:44:18 – 00:25:59:09
Will Silverstein
I l— love going on the boat. I like the challenge of the boat as much as being on the actual water and going to the destinations. That’s all great, but navigating is kinda what we do on a daily basis, too. It’s a good challenge, and, you know, usually there’s not e— not everyone on, on, on the boat’s capable of it, so there’s a g— little bit of pressure.

00:25:59:09 – 00:26:13:24
Will Silverstein
It’s all fun. It gets a little dark and foggy, whatever it may be. Sometimes gets a little sketchy. You know, I, I, and, uh, I, I, I— definitely foggy— I enjoy that. I, I, uh— but I think that’s, uh— yeah, that’s got to be why I live in this area. Yeah.

00:26:14:04 – 00:26:33:19
Vernon Miles
It’s an amazing area to live in. I mean, I would not trade living here for pretty much anywhere else in the country. I’ve been doing some traveling in Phoenix and Washington and even going to Florida. Florida is great, but it’s great for like vacation, right? Like, I don’t know if I could spend 365 days a year down there. And it’s nice seeing the four seasons.

00:26:33:21 – 00:26:35:11
Craig Snell
I mean, people are people.

00:26:35:12 – 00:26:50:19
Will Silverstein
Are people are authentic. I mean, the, you know, the, there’s a mutual understanding. It doesn’t need to be spoken about. I mean, you grew up in an area and been from that area. Yeah. And, you know, I think it just makes it, that makes it feel, makes it feel comfortable. Makes it feel like home, I guess.

00:26:50:19 – 00:26:55:10
Craig Snell
So what, what’s the vision for you guys moving forward? Is there another restaurant on the horizon that everyone should know about or?

00:26:56:21 – 00:27:19:07
Will Silverstein
No, not, not right now, I think, you know, so roughly, we opened about a restaurant a year from 2018 to last year. Last year we opened 2 restaurants. And I think that we all feel that— A, we’re not, we’re not doing a good job. We’re not there for our teams like we should be. We’re not getting them the information in time.

00:27:19:07 – 00:27:39:20
Will Silverstein
And, you know, it’s, it’s only a matter of time before that, you know, starts, starts to affect the guest. And, um, we want to, you know, professionalize the company. Because my father says when he left Joe’s, he retired. That’s what he says, right? So for the first couple years, it was, we’re just going to do one more. We’re just going to do, we have to do the Cisco thing.

00:27:39:20 – 00:27:55:22
Will Silverstein
We’ve been partners. We’ve been friends with the guys from Cisco for 20 years. We’ve been talking about it. We got to do it. And then, you know, and I think over the past couple of years when we started to build the team and we’ve had, um, you know, some, some reassuring success to an extent that it’s become, okay, this, this is something we should probably professionalize.

00:27:55:22 – 00:28:13:05
Will Silverstein
And, you know, we, we, we don’t have an office today. It’s, it’s under, uh, renovation right now, but we didn’t have an office at this point in time. Just kind of proves to you, like, we didn’t really like, you know, it’s, I don’t know, what is this? Family business? You know, we all, we, we all lived together during COVID naturally, like every other family worked together.

00:28:13:05 – 00:28:33:06
Will Silverstein
But I think, you know, we’re at the phase where we need to professionalize the company. We need to slow things down. We need to do a better job training, have, have, you know, have better fundamentals, better, uh, understanding of our economics and, and those type of things before we move, uh, move onward. I think if we were to open, uh, additional restaurants, which we will most likely in 2027, uh, I don’t think it will be in this area.

00:28:33:09 – 00:28:48:23
Will Silverstein
Um, I think that our— but we want to be able to drive to our restaurants. That’s one of the major things that happened at Joe’s was A, the travel sucks, but like to go. So I think, you know, my father would drive all the way to New Hampshire and he stopped at like 7 restaurants on the way home.

00:28:48:23 – 00:29:02:17
Will Silverstein
But, you know, with that, that is what it is. But what really, you know, what he still talks about that, that kills him is that he’d get on a plane, go to Virginia, get off the plane. They wouldn’t know who he was and the restaurant would be a mess. And it’s like, what am I doing? This isn’t, this isn’t a company. What am I running? Like, you know, I have no effect over, over these things.

00:29:02:18 – 00:29:25:13
Will Silverstein
So I think it’s very important. This gentleman, Danny Meyer, most predominant restaurateur in New York City. And he built almost every one of his restaurants in say like a six, six block radius. Yeah. And the, uh, threat of a restaurateur coming in, or the owner coming in at any time, you know— it’s very high— and it just, it’s also great to be, be in your businesses.

00:29:25:13 – 00:29:47:07
Will Silverstein
So I’d say that for future, um, you know, future growth somewhere between say like Portsmouth, Rhode Island, and I don’t know, like Hyannis. Like somewhere like they all fit the same thing. We like the water. Uh, we’d love to do something in Florida. We see that like the Black Whale concept would have legs down there. Um, you know, we’re not opposed to, uh, Nantucket.

00:29:47:07 – 00:30:09:21
Will Silverstein
We’ve had a tremendous experience on Nantucket. We love working up there. It’s not without its challenges with deliveries and housing and, and seasonality. But I mean, it’s, uh, you know, there’s a reason that all these people who could vacation anywhere in the world vacation there. And, you know, we love that. But, um, I think, you know, eventually there’s other areas of the hospitality industry we’d like to, to experiment in.

00:30:09:21 – 00:30:27:02
Will Silverstein
So, um, you know, I’m, I’m a little bit younger and I— my father’s saying, “I don’t want to do this whole thing again.” But, you know, he, I, you know, I feel the need to try to, like every generation tries to, you know, to those a lot is given, a lot’s expected, et cetera. I need to, you know, surpass that. Got to one up him. Well, I was given more tools, right? Put your stamp on it. So I got to, I got to make more out of it.

00:30:27:07 – 00:30:47:03
Will Silverstein
So, um, you know, I, but I do think there’s a cap on how many full service restaurants you could run, you know, about maybe say 10 of them, something like that, before it starts to become that— too much— but there’s a lot of variations of hospitality and, you know, hospitality is luckily now becoming, you know, involved in everything from the tire place to whatever it may be.

00:30:47:03 – 00:31:05:19
Will Silverstein
But I think, you know, the fast casual restaurants that you see, um, you know, Jersey Mike’s had tremendous success. People in the cities that have absolutely doing great like Cava and, and others. Um, you know, I don’t know about hotels, but I’d love to know about hotels. I’ve had, you know, c— conversations, um, with Richard LaFrance and I asked him, you know, “What are you thinking?”

00:31:05:19 – 00:31:20:16
Will Silverstein
He’s like, “Oh,” he goes, “It’s, it’s so much better than restaurants, but it’s freaking expensive.” Yeah. You know, are you gonna— expensive to get in— build this whole thing? Yeah. Yeah. It’s got, you know, barriers— yeah— to, barriers to entry, but you know who’s coming in, you know they’re staying for 24 hours. It’s a little bit more, less variables I should say.

00:31:20:18 – 00:31:22:00
Craig Snell
You know, go, go, go like it is in the restaurant.

00:31:22:02 – 00:31:39:21
Will Silverstein
Marina is a, is a hot commodity, and I don’t think that we will, that we’ll play in those regions on our own. That’s a big risk and a big investment. But I do think that we could add elements to them, uh, whether that be we help to operate to an extent, we have, uh, some piece of it and we operate the restaurant there, or it’s a beer garden.

00:31:39:21 – 00:31:56:13
Will Silverstein
So, um, but, you know, I think that the, uh, the quick service piece could be a combination of— I see all the development that happens up near Titleist or up near, um, you know, the medical facilities and you think that there’s more of these. I mean, walk around, walk around Boston, you see these lines.

00:31:56:13 – 00:32:09:22
Will Silverstein
I get it’s the financial district, whatever, but the, they’re, these places are so busy and, and they’re good and they just, and it, it would be nice to, to have, uh, unlike what we do now, to have some concepts that are maybe a little bit more similar. Mm. Um, that, that could be a, you know, nice touch on that front.

00:32:09:24 – 00:32:30:02
Vernon Miles
That’s awesome. One more thing before we let you go. DoorDash, Uber Eats, how has that affected your business? Because I know how it’s affected— yeah— uh, you know, my credit card, ’cause I order DoorDash quite a bit from your restaurants. I do do that a lot, too. I think that that coming out of COVID was one of the best things and, you know, potentially one of the worst things, but from a restaurant ownership management— yeah, yeah.

00:32:30:04 – 00:32:32:02
Vernon Miles
That’s an excellent question. Did that really help you guys?

00:32:32:03 – 00:32:51:06
Will Silverstein
I mean, it, it’s an additional revenue stream that wasn’t there. Um, would those people come and pick up food? Maybe. I don’t know. What’s, you know, what’s the— I’d say that maybe 25% of the people wouldn’t have picked up the food, but comes with a hefty fee, and as they gain traction, it’s becoming more and more.

00:32:51:06 – 00:33:12:01
Will Silverstein
I think it started off at maybe the commission was somewhere in the low teens, and now I think for any new c— new clients, it’s, it’s 30. But, you know, the good news for, for the consumer and, and for us is that, um, Uber Eats and GrubHub with their partnership and Amazon’s becoming a legitimate player— and they— yeah— you know, gotta recycle the deck on that front.

00:33:12:01 – 00:33:30:17
Will Silverstein
But, you know, the, the thing that we don’t love about, about takeout in general is you get home and it’s not right. What are we— it’s not the same. Well, well, it, e— even if it, you know, you got, even if you got someone else’s order, it’s like we can’t create the experience. And that’s what we fundamentally, you know, have to our advantage. We have a captured audience.

00:33:30:17 – 00:33:50:20
Will Silverstein
So, uh, but you know, we’re, we’re not, we’re not ignorant to the fact. We would like to, you know, we would like to be to different people, different things, different things at different times of the day. I think the National Club’s a good example, right? And, you know, at lunch maybe we need to, you know, have a lunch program that is more carry out and maybe we should walk the food to everyone within a mile, and at dinner we’re a traditional family restaurant, and on Friday and Saturday we have a DJ, right?

00:33:50:20 – 00:34:06:11
Will Silverstein
I mean, I think that that’s kind of the stuff— pretty awesome— that we need to do in this area in order to capture. It goes back to people need to dine out at our restaurants multiple times a week. There’s what? Maybe say 300,000 people in the greater area, something like that.

00:34:06:12 – 00:34:20:01
Will Silverstein
I mean like, you know, that, that we’re not able to just say, “This is what we do.” I think, um, so, you know, DoorDash certainly plays a, plays a big role. They’re a predominant player. But I can tell you it’s, I don’t have any idea on how to make the fries not soggy.

00:34:20:02 – 00:34:21:22
Craig Snell
Yeah. Kind of tough.

00:34:21:24 – 00:34:26:01
Craig Snell
But it is still pretty good by the time it gets there. I do do it a lot.

00:34:26:03 – 00:34:37:07
Vernon Miles
You know what’s really lazy is I DoorDash, I’m, I shouldn’t even say this on camera. I’ve DoorDashed a lot of times from Sail Loft and it’s less than a mile away from my house.

00:34:37:08 – 00:34:38:20
Craig Snell
I have, I have too. I live closer to Sail Loft than you do.

00:34:39:01 – 00:34:55:19
Vernon Miles
So you say 25%— I think, yeah, I think it’s even higher than 25%. I mean— because if you’re, if you’re not with your family, your spouse isn’t home, it’s like I got the kids. And the other thing I love about your restaurants, it makes it so easy, is I have a 12-year-old, a 15-year-old, they, totally their palates change every like 2 years.

00:34:55:21 – 00:35:03:01
Vernon Miles
Um, and you guys have something for everybody, right? You can order sushi, cheeseburger, steak, chicken tenders.

00:35:03:03 – 00:35:05:09
Craig Snell
It is crazy that my kids are eating sushi.

00:35:05:11 – 00:35:05:20
Vernon Miles
Yeah. It’s insane.

00:35:05:22 – 00:35:12:17
Craig Snell
Like, go out— Austin’s outside. He’s coming on next, and he’s my 9-year-old, and he’s obsessed with the shaggy dog— hey, hey— sushi roll.

00:35:12:19 – 00:35:27:13
Will Silverstein
It’s our job and business to make it as easy as possible to spend money, right? Yeah. I mean, isn’t it, that’s the number one now. I love when people knock McDonald’s or DoorDash. And you guys, these are what, 10, 20, $30 billion companies. You think they did something right. I mean, like, come on. Like, what, you know, what can we learn from them?

00:35:27:13 – 00:35:28:15
Craig Snell
People knock everything.

00:35:28:16 – 00:35:32:08
Will Silverstein
Consistency. It doesn’t matter. Logistics. Yeah. You know, the op— the optimization.

00:35:32:08 – 00:35:44:02
Craig Snell
Just blows me— so— blows me away at how consistent they are. Like, no matter where I go. And everybody jokes around, I’m like, “But I love to go to normal restaurants. I’m not DoorDashing McDonald’s, right?” But like, if I’m driving and I need something quick— you’re not—

00:35:44:03 – 00:35:44:22
Craig Snell
I have. Let’s be real.

00:35:44:24 – 00:35:58:00
Will Silverstein
I’m talking about the pen, they’re talking about the grass they’re feeding the cows— yeah— at the farms they own here. You know, I mean, it’s just, it’s incredible what these— yeah— these, the level these get to. And then you’re at it for a long time, and you got a lot of resources and you know, it’s great.

00:35:58:02 – 00:36:01:13
Craig Snell
Oh, man. Well, thank you so much for coming on. That was probably one of my favorite episodes.

00:36:01:14 – 00:36:02:20
Vernon Miles
Yeah. I learned a lot about the restaurant business.

00:36:02:22 – 00:36:04:21
Craig Snell
A lot. I wish you guys a ton of success.

00:36:04:21 – 00:36:11:19
Will Silverstein
Thank you. I mean, we, we learned a lot, but it’s stuff that everyone knows, right? I mean, we’re just trying to, uh, trying to live, live what we say, which is about life.

00:36:11:24 – 00:36:12:03
Vernon Miles
Where—

00:36:12:03 – 00:36:25:22
Vernon Miles
You guys go out and do it, right? There’s a lot of people that talk the game— yeah, that’s the difference— but you guys back it up, and that’s like one of those things that me and Craig talk about all the time is just being able to back up what you promise. Like, you tell the consumer you’re gonna get them X, you deliver on that. Even if it costs us money. Yeah. We don’t want—

00:36:25:23 – 00:36:30:00
Vernon Miles
We’d rather have them go around to the office and be like, “Hey, that guy actually delivered. He did this. He said he was gonna do it.”

00:36:30:02 – 00:36:47:14
Craig Snell
You guys just treat people the right way. From the people that come into your staff, I know a lot of people that work for you, it’s the same thing, and I think that’s the key to success at the end of the day. I mean, how many restaurants you go in and it’s like the waitress is miserable and, and nasty, and you’re like— yeah— you know, you’re nervous about ordering something because you feel like you’re bothering her.

00:36:47:14 – 00:36:49:17
Craig Snell
I’m like, “We’re not gonna have dessert.” By the time she comes, yeah.

00:36:49:19 – 00:36:51:15
Vernon Miles
I go to his restaurants, we’re like, “We want all the desserts.”

00:36:51:15 – 00:36:52:08
Craig Snell
We don’t wanna leave.

00:36:52:08 – 00:37:07:22
Will Silverstein
All I know is, you know, w— we try hard and that, that’s all we can control, right? And but, um, yeah, thank, thank you for the opportunity to talk about, talk about the business. If it’s helpful to, for me to, you know, hear myself talk about it or think through it— yeah— and to think, you know, what, what’s important as we go back into, you know, dinner service tonight.

00:37:07:23 – 00:37:09:15
Vernon Miles
Absolutely. Thanks, Will. Really appreciate it, man.

00:37:09:15 – 00:37:10:03
Will Silverstein
Thanks, guys, very much.

00:37:10:03 – 00:37:10:24
Will Silverstein
Appreciate it.