Ask the Attorneys: Title Insurance 101 with SKM Title & Closing Services

Welcome back to Mortgage Daddies. Today, we have, uh, 2 attorneys that we work a lot with that are local in the area, uh, Mike and Patti Couto from SKM. How you guys doing today? Great. Pretty good. Thank you for having us. You guys are the best. You guys got a lot of podcasts going today, huh? Yeah. Yeah. One to another. It’s like doing the stump speech. I’m Vernon. I run the top mortgage brokerage in Massachusetts with over 20 years of experience. I’m Craig. I’ve done $100 million consistently since my second full year in the business, and I’m Massachusetts’ top mortgage broker. We’re the Mortgage Daddies, with real advice, real stories, and real results. Let’s get going. It’s like the end of the month for you guys, just non-stop. Yeah, all day long. I feel like this month has flown by. The podcast of closing. It really is. You know, next month we’re looking at, uh, 15 business days with Thanksgiving falls. So October’s compressed. November will be, uh, pretty tight as well. Yeah, it’s always crazy trying to get everything closed before Thanksgiving. And then everybody wants to close the day before Thanksgiving, and nobody wants to work that day. Yeah. Does the registry close, like, half- half the day on that day? Or is that just what attorneys tell me ’cause they don’t want to work in the afternoon? Uh, part of that might be true, butPatti’s like, “It’s actually closed that day. “It’s theYeah. They had- they had to open for business. I mean, that’s the tough thing for us, because our staff works hard all year long. And, you know, to- to have to say, you know, hey, the day after Thanksgiving, you know, we have to come in is difficult. Yeah, for sure. But, you know, we’re in the business of putting people in the houses, and- and, you know, and their Thanksgiving is always the day after. And then, you know, unfortunately, you know, this year Christmas, uh, falls the same way. So, you know, it’s- it’s difficult to, you know, ask people to come in. But, you know, everyone understands. Yeah. People want to be in their houses for the holidays, and that’s what we sign up for. So safe to say our offices will be open the day over Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah, it’s tough. I mean, you know, you d- I feel like the realtors and the clients, like, they don’t understand the business day side of it. They look at, oh, well, if I put my offer in on the 10th, I want to close 30 days later on the 10th. how many business days were in between that? Right. Plus, you’re putting your offer in on the 10th, doesn’t mean it’s accepted on the 10th. You’re looking at losing 3, 4, 5 days before any of us even get any of it to start workingA- agreed. You know, and- and, uh, and to that point, you know, COVID compressed the timelines. When, you know, before COVID, we would typically, you know, hear from our gatekeepers, you know, the real estate agents who refer our stuff, and- and- and- and good brokers like yourselves to say, “Hey, you know, we have a 30-day close, and can you handle that timeline? “W- what happened after COVID is that the timelines compressed. So agents, you know, d- during kind of the slowdown, you know, we needed deals. And so it wasn’t like, “Can you do this? “It would be like, “Hey, we’ve signed an offer up on Saturday with a 2week closing and, you know, and let’s play ball. “So the timelines have definitely compressed on that. I think- Which, you know, I think is good. I think even from not just COVID, but the technology piece of things has really s- sped everything up. I think our average clear to close is like 14. 7 days right now, which is insane com- compared to 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when you were getting contracts for 30. 30 days was a rush back then. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And 45 days was, like, the norm. Right. Now it’s like, oh, you got a 20I tell my team, “Give me a 21-day contract. 30 is great, 21, if the real estate agent can deliver it, we’ll- we’ll get it closed. “Yeah. And, you know, and- and- and really, you know, non-depository lenders like yourselves really drive the technology in this- in this business. Um, all of the- all of the, you know, kind of the electronic mortgage applications, and the electronic underwriting, and all the things that your customers are offered by you to make the mortgage experience better. You know, like the automatic bridges between checking accounts and credit scores and all that. Yeah. Is all developed by, you know, non-depository, uh, lending. Like, you know, like your fine company and then the, you know, the other banks, you know, kind of follow the lead. But all the investment is done from people like you guys. It’s definitely sped things up a lot. I mean, I remember even 6 years ago when I got into this business, we didn’t even have an online application. It was paper. Used to have people- Right. come in and sign all their initial docs. So there was, well, if they’re working or they can’t come in for a few days. Now it’s like, hey, you got it in 2 seconds. I need you to sign this so we can get moving on it, especially if it’s a rush. Which really helps speed things up, butI mean, Craig just likes to make fun of me ’cause I’m still dinosaurs for anybody out there. I’m still taking paper applications-like 80% of the time, and I still get made fun of for doing so. But i- it is all good. I mean, there- there- I mean, there is aI- it does make things easier, in my opinion, a little bit when you do it, ’cause you get to hear the whole story. You get to find out what’s going on a little bit better than if you’re just looking at an online application and you’re like, “Uh, hope all this lines up. “Like you can tell when someone’s, like, unsure of their work history when you’re talking. Right. Like, “Hey, where’d you work before here? “”Well, I think here, uh, from this time. “But if you look at an application, it just has dates on it, and you’re like assuming it’s correct. And then send it to underwriting, they’re like, “Yeah, none of this lines up. “You’re like, “Oh, great. Here we go. “That’s wrong. Yeah. Hope- hope we can figure this out. You know, y- y- you, like, you know, you’ve been around for a while, you know? And then I never want to be the guy that says, “Well, you know, I’ve been doing it for this long, and I know everything. “Um, or even confessing how long you’ve been doing it. But, you know, I remember when the number of closings you had that day depended on how many were on the FedEx drop. Because documents were delivered by Federal Express, and every morning you open the door and there would be, you know, your- your 15 or whatever packages. And if that package wasn’t there, it- it wasn’t, it wasn’t closing. Oh. So the, you know, the compression of the- the timeline and just the- the ease in which we do business now, um, is- is amazing. You know, that you can clear a loan this fast. and, and get the loan underwritten, and then get us the electronic package, and then we do what we got to do to put it together. Um, and you know, it’s, it’s really fascinating. And, and, you know, you know, w- what do we talk about now, right? Every- talking about AI, you know, like- Yeah. what is it gonna look like? You know, with, you know, the compression even, even shorter and more tools to use, I mean, it’s, it’s exciting. It’s not scary. It’s gonna be exciting. I think my favorite are the eSign packages because it just makes closings so much quicker and that much easier. And I think, you know, for, for borrowers it takes away a lot of, like the, the nervousness about the day of closing, ’cause they’re able to, like see, you know, their documents ahead of time as opposed to seeing like a 400-page stack, so- Get ready- Yeah. get ready to sign. And you guys can close anywhere really now, right? I mean, h- how often do you even close at the registry anymore? Never. S- yeah. You, you know, and that’s another result of, of the COVID period, you know, we used to have these giant meetings and, you know, we’d have the buyer and the seller and, you know, we’d be talking about the garage door opener and, and you know, and sometimes if the closing was contentious that would be difficult and everybody wants to know where it is and, and, and, and COVID just kind of took that away, which, you know, now we get a collateral package from the seller’s side and, and, and we really doit at the convenience of the buyer. And it’s, it’s, it’s much easier and, and, and really m- much more efficient and just a better experience for everybody, inc- including, including us. Yeah, for sure. Like, you know, I mean weI love people, Pattie loves people, but you know, sitting at a table flipping 80 documents is, is not a good- 10 times a day. is not a good use of our time. Yeah. It’s, it’s just really not. Absolutely. Now how’d you guys get into this exactly? I mean, you guys are both attorneys, you could do just about anything. What led you guys to want to do real estate? Go first, yeah. I’ll, I’ll go first. So Iit’s a funny story ’cause I actually, I never wanted to do real estate. Um, I don’t even think you know this, but in law schoolso I mean, I’ve, I’ve always been a straight A student, I was on the National Honor Society in high school- Same. Same with me. Yeah. And- That’s how we ended up as, um, loan officers- Yeah. not attorneys. Right, right. And so when I, when I went to law school it was obviously a little bit of a rude awakening, so I had a teacher, um, for real estate and he was just not the nicest and he wouldhe was one of those teachers that would, like take points away if you had too much information. So I got a D. I got my first D ever. And I remember I came home, I was like crying obviously beside myself and I like went to my parents and I’m like, “I will never do real estate. I don’t know who would ever do this. This is so dumb. I’m never gonna do this ever. “And so I graduated law school and then I ended up at, um, like a general practice law firm, and I started doing personal injury, medical malpractice, and then after about a year, um, one of the partners who was in the real estate section, he left to go open up his own practice. And so, you know, the rest of the partners were like, “Well, w- we need somebody in real estate. “And, um, and they were like, “And it’s gonna be you. “And I was like, “No-” “no, I don’t wanna do it. “”I got a D, man. “Yeah. I’m like, “I don’t, I don’t think I’m cut out for this. I don’t think I’m, I’m, I’m gonna make it. “And, uh, they were just like, “Well, thir- you don’t have a choice. “So they ju- I just kind of got forced into it, and then I just grew to love it. I, I love, you know, working with the people and I, I love the closing part of it. I like the actual signing and not just sitting behind a computer. SoPattie, this business sucks you in. I know. No one ever said, “I can’t wait to grow up and be a mortgage broker or-” “be a real estate attorney. “Like, it never happens, and then once you, once you get your toe in there, golf you do. Yeah, that’s exactly what happened. You can’t get out. And I never looked back and then I never did anything else- No. besides real estate. Can’t get out. Cannot get out. Yeah. I’ve thought about opening landscaping companies, anything, restaurants. Can’t do it. Don’t think That’s what, that’s what you were doing before, right? Yeah, so, you know, uh, I think it’s, you know, very telling, you know, most of the folks that are in our line of work, whether it’s the attorneys or real estate agents, everybody’s got a story to tell. Uh, you know, we didn’t start off in, in, in the mortgage business or the real estate business rather, but, you know, the common thread is most of us have started in the customer service business. Um, me for one, you know, I, uh, my training was with a caterer in Baltimore and, you know, I worked for, for, as a, you know, as a really young guy for almost 10 years, uh, through college. And, you know, and I learned about customer service. I did weddings before I knew what a wedding was. I thought I knew what a wedding was until my wife explained to me what a wedding was and what that was all about, been to thousands of them. Um, but the common thread for me is that, you know, I love to serve people, and, you know, and when you love it, like Pattie didn’t say she liked it, and you guys, you know, don’t say that you like it. You know, we love it. We love the pressure, we love the timelines, we love being right for people. Um, and so my background was that. It was catering, um, I, uh, owned a restaurant in Baltimore, um, I have an identical twin brother and, uh, and so if my Baltimore accent is alive and well, that’s ’cause I just saw him, uh, this weekend. But, you know, it’s, it’s one thing to say that you’re g- you give good service. It’s one thing to say that, you know, y- y- you know, y- y- your team gives good service. But it’s a whole nother thing to execute. It’s the return phone calls, it’s the calling and checking on the client in the middle of the process. It’s trying to put yourself in the client’s position is, you know, this is daunting. You know, we, we do it every day, but, you know, people don’t do that. So, you know, we like to be around people that, that, that love this because then it’s not, you know, it’s not a problem-solving business, it’s something that, you know, everybody wants to be a part of. And so for me, um, you know, that’s kinda how I got started, but, you know, I, I wake up every day and, and, you know, and, and worry about my customers and, and, and wanna get, you know, their dreams realized. Um, and that’s to own a house. Nothing better. I think you have to really love what you do for you not to burn out after a certain amount of time in any business. When I was a firefighter I saw it. When I got into it, I loved it. I was like, “This is the best job ever. How do people not love this? “And then I would talk to guys that have been on the job for 20, 25, 30 years and they’re miserable. Yep. You know, they hate everybody. They hate every call that comes in. You know, if something really crazy happens, you know, everybody kind of perks up, but, like, the normal things of, you know, grandma has back pain for 2 weeks, ah, they’re all pissed off, they’re not that nice to her. And I’m like, “A- h- how, how are you not nice to her? “But as I got into it more, my love for that kind of died off. I was never super into it like some of the guys were. And I’m like, “Yeah, you know, I don’t think this is for me forever. “Like, I was getting real, real tired of it. And you see that in our business a lot where some people don’t have that bedside manner. You know, a little bit different obviously. Yeah. You’re not bedside, but, you know, the bedside manner side of it, you know, just being nice to people, the kindness that you have goes a long way in this business. And if you’re burnt out and you don’t love what you do, it’s very difficult to put that face on and show that kindness that people want, you know, at a closing. I’ve been with attorI get calls after, “Hey, this attorney’s an asshole. “I’m like, “What? You went to sign papers to buy a house. “Like, “what happened? “Like, “How does this even- Great process. how does this even happen? “Like, the whole transaction was awesome, but they went to some random attorney and they’re pissed off that they’re on their 15th closing of the day, they just drove 300 miles that day, they’re mad, they ask one question and the guy flips out. You know, and it’s notItJust like any business, I mean, you have to really love what you do and understand that this is a big deal for these people whether you don’t think it is or not. Like, you have to have that compassion for people. Otherwise, y- you gotta go find something else. Y- you gotta go work behind a computer. Yeah. You know what I mean? No doubt. No doubt. I think it’s really easy for people to, like, lose their spark- Mm-hmm. after doing it for so long, right? When you’re behind the computer it’s, it’s easy for it to just become another number or another loan. So I think that that’s, you know, the, the most in part i- important part is being at the closing and seeing the people, ’cause a lot of times people don’t meet their attorneys un- until the closing day. You know? And by putting yourself in your clients’ shoes, I mean, eh, I think it helps with being more compassionate. I mean, for me, like, you know, my favorite kind of clients are the first time home buyers that are, that are, like, immigrants that have just come here because I relate to it a l- a lot, right? Like, my, my family were also immigrants, so I feel like I feel for those clients. I, I give extra attention to those people and, um, it’s just something that I’m passionate about. So I think that by having that, by having that commonality with the clients that you have that it, it helps kind of maintain that spark, you know? I almost just look at is as I love what we do, I’m passionate about it, and it’s not likeAn- me, me and Craig talk about this, it’s not even like we come to work. Like, when I wake up in the morning I’m like, I’m now like, “Shit, I have to go to the office today and deal with these people or a first time home buyer on applications. “Like, I’m e- excited to go to the office, not that I dislike my family or I don’t want to see my kids or drop them off, but I’m excited to go to work every single day. And you can start seeing it on loan officers or real estate or attorneys, anybody who’s been in here, you get beat up. I look at it as-They’re just having a bad day. Right. Like, how often are we getting yelled at? Or somebody just not happy, and you’re like, “Take a deep breath. If you were in front of me, I’d probably thunder punch you right in the chest, knock the wind out of you. “”But I’m gonna take a deep breath because I’ve already been down this road,” right? And until you put yourself in their position, like you, you, you were saying, put yourself in their position. They’ve never done this before and their closing disclosure came out $1300 more than they were expecting. Not really a big deal in the business when you’re buying a $600,000 house, the number’s off by a thousand, could be some taxes. But did you explain that to them? Did you go over that piece with them? And I think that’s the disconnect between, like, the great loan officers and the good loan officers, or the agents. It’s the ones who take that extra time to explain out and put yourself in their position, ’cause they’ve never done it. Um, every single time I’ve bought a house, I turn into a first time home buyer. Like, I’m more worried about my loan, like something going on, and I do this for 20 plus years. Like, “Oh my God, I hope my wife’s credit’s okay. I hope-” “did, did we make any large deposits? “And I’m already thinking about this because I do it, but I think you just have to go back into that, that client’s mindset. This is the biggest day of their lives. Like, I don’t think everybody in the transaction realizes this is their Super Bowl. This is the biggest thing that’s happened to them in the last couple of years, right? And what do you close, 25 loans a month? Like, Craig’s doing 300 of these closings a year. It’s not his Super Bowl every singleYou know, I, uh, I forget often, um, about the title of attorney. I f- forget it often. I just don’t, you know, um, I don’t really, you know, think about that role, you know, that title. Um, and most folks, you know, look at, you know, attorneys, I think sometimes who don’t have experience with attorneys on a regular basis and think that, you know, we’re different. You know? And, and, you know, there’s attorneys that are, are good and there’s attorneys that are no good, and there’s attorneys that are prepared and there’s attorneys that aren’t. And there’s attorneys that give good service and there’s attorneys that don’t. And, you know, the common thread with me and, and, and, and Patty, um, you know, I never have to worry about, you know, uh, Patty’s love for her clients and her caring for her clients. And that’s what, you know, I try to set the example of. And it’s easy for me, ’cause I, like you, I wake up in the morning and, and I’m thankful for, you know, everything I have, including the house that I live in. And, you know, to your point, you know, m- all my expertise and experience went out the window when I bought a house. Um, my brain turned into mush. Um, and, and then when you see that and you remember, say, “Okay, you know, this is, this is a big deal for, for anybody. “You know? And, and, and, and it resonates, first time home buyers to people who are buying, you know, houses after house, and the price point doesn’t matter. It is an important piece of your life. When you come home and you’reshut that door and you’re in your sanctuary, safe and sound, away from all of the stuff that, you know, people contend with today, the political climate, all this. And that’s what, what really resonates for me. And I try to remember that, that we’re, you know, we’re getting rooms for little kids. And we’re getting, you know, kitchens where people sit around and have meals. And, you know, you know, when you were fighting fires, that’s, uh, that’s a service that is, you know, is not really recognized often. And, and our service to an extent isn’t. You know, like, you know, th- do people call us and, you know, “Thank you, thank you, thank you” sometimes, and that’s great. But I know we perform an important service. Yeah. And I know that you perform an important service. Your getting people the wealth to buy an asset is extremely important. Yeah, and you don’t get thatIt’s great when you do, ’cause you don’t get a lot of that in this business, you know? Especially on yours. I would say, like, like, tiers off at every level. Like, the realtor gets a lo- you know, probably a lot of the credit. they went with the house. They spent mo- the most amount of time physically with the client. Then the loan officers, like I have some clients that love me, they thank me, they, you know, reach out to me all the time. Other ones that, you know, really couldn’t care less, you know, whether you helped them a ton and you made something happen that never would have happened or you taught them everything y- they needed to know and you were, you did everything you possibly could, they couldn’t care less, “Hey, it is what it is, you gotta move on. “And then for you guys, you spend the least amount of time with the client, but you do a lot of work on the back end to protect them and to help them and to make sure that the money’s correct, to make sure that they’re protected with title, to make sure that everything’s where it needs to be and you’re in and out. And most of the time, most of the clients don’t remember the attorney on who they closed with. I, I know I didn’t on my first house. I did my first house with him when I was a firefighter. And I- I don’t remember the attorney either. I didn’t know who the attorney was- Yeah. until I was looking at m- I think we were moving and I found the closing package in my house and it was Shearman Law. And I was like, and now I knew Tim, you know? Mm-hmm. ‘Cause then you remember people, but like, you know, I, I, you could have paid me a million dollars, I wouldn’t have been able to tell you who closed the deal on my house. Yeah. I had no idea, you know what I mean? But if it, because it was a good experience. Right. I saw something the other day, it’s like, you know, for every good comment somebody says or whatever, you, you know, out of like 300 you remember one, but, you know, every time that somebody says something negative, it lasts with you for, for so much longer, you know? And it’s like those clients that for whatever reason they weren’t happy, it didn’t go well, those are the ones that sit with you, those are the ones that you remember. The ones that went smooth, you, you just, you don’t remember them as much, right? So the client doesn’t remember you as much because it went smooth. If it went bad, oh, they’re gonna remember you. Oh. Yeah. And they’re gonna go tell 100 people- Right. you know, that, that it went bad for whatever reason and, you know, that’s what’s, you know, it, and then I think of this business it’s like personalities, figuring out what people’s personalities are and how to deal with those personalities. There’s people that are get, when they get stressed or they don’t understand something, instead of just saying, “Hey, I don’t understand this, can you explain this to me? “They get aggressive back at ya. That, that’s easy, that’s easy to deal with, but not everybody can deal with that. So when you meet aggression with aggression, it blows up and it’s a bad experience for everybody. That never happens around here. I’m like, “Uh, let me have Craig Snell call you-“. ” because this isn’t going to go well if I keep this up. “Patty, talking about m- you know, the, the transaction, the attorney being kind of the, the last spoke in the wheel, let’s talk about and, and educate the audience a little bit on title insurance, right? When I was really Mm-hmm. originating a lot, there’d be questions, “Do I really need owner’s policy? What is this lender’s policy? “The importance of that, and I will say this, the clients that I always hear back from who are asking who the closing attorney was, it’s because they have a title problem and they might not have gotten owner’s policy. Uh, can you just shed some light on the importance of that owner’s policy, what it is and- Yeah, sure. Sure. So, so 2 things. So there’s an owner’s policy and then a lender’s policy, right? So any time, um, a borrower gets a loan, they’ll, they purchase the lender’s policy. It’s a requirement. The owner’s policy is not required, but it’s recommended. Yep. And we rarely have borrowers never, I mean, almost never have borrowers purchase, not purchase the title insurance at the closing. So the lender’s policy only protects the lender for the loan amount and I feel like a lot of borrowers don’t understand that when they’re getting these loan estimates and they see all these numbers and they see this title insurance, they think that whatever insurance that they’re getting is gonna protect them no matter what. But the owner’s title insurance is what protects them against, um, any issues, you know, related- Hey, come on. to the title, yeah. Let me ask you a question ’cause you said a key word there. A lender’s policy covers the lender for the loan amount. So let’s just take, for example, you come from an immigrant family. I’m willing to bet your parent’s house is paid off, right? Their, their, their goal is to pay off that house and th- as fast as possible. When that loan is paid off and you owe the bank $0, what happens to that lender’s policy? Um, I mean- It’s gone. it’s gone, yeah. And too many times borrowers and buyers think that that policy covers them. Is that the case or they need to have that other policy? Right. So it’s not the case at all. The, the lender’s policy does not protect a borrower at all. The owner’s policy is what’s really gonna protect them in the event that anything comes up prior to their ownership, any sort of disputes, encroachments or anything like that. And while there is a cost associated with it, it’s a one-time premium that you’re paying at the closing. You never have to worry about it ever again, no matter how many times you refinance, um, or anything like that. For as long as you live in that home, whether it’s a primary residence or not, that policy is gonna protects you. You don’t have to talk to me about insurance. I buy insurance on my airplane tickets-my car tires. If, if the salesperson’s like, “Oh, you want insurance on that? “I’m like, “Sign me up. “‘Cause as soon as I say no, I’m driving off the lot and I’m gonna smash the tire into a curb, so sign me up. What, what type ofI guess, you know, I always had heard this and, you know, tell people, “Yes, you should get it. It protects you, it protects you from any issues. “What are those type of issues that actually can come up? Yeah. Um, so let me just go back to the lender policy a second ’cause 2, 2 good points were raised. As the loan is paid off, the, the amount of money, the coverage from the lender’s policy transfers to the owner. So if you buy a property with a loan of 250 and, and, you know, and a purchase price of 400, you have 150 in owner’s insurance and the lender has 250,000. And so as you pay that loan down, that insurance coverage goes to you because you now have more equity in the home. The reason for the lender’s policy is so that the lender can sell the loans on the secondary market, so that, you knowAnd, and again, this is for a whole nother podcast, right? But, you know, title insurance makes the world go round. It- it- in America, that when a lender lends money, they don’t have to worry about, uh, you know, doing a background check on Patty and I. Or we have credentials to be able to write title insurance. That’s the vetting. But the lender knows that when they lend money and there’s a title insurance product behind that, they have a guarantee that whoever did the title work, whoever made the title opinion, whoever processed the work, um, it doesn’t matter. They’re covered, okay? And the borrower pays that as a cost of getting the loan. Um, the owner’s coverage, um, you know, y- you typicallyYou know, when, when people ask attorneys, “Well, why do you buy title insurance? “A lot of the times they say, well, if there’s a missing heir or, you know, a fraudulent deed and all that stuff. It very rarely happens is somebody knocks on the door and says, “Get out. This is my property. “What happens is this. When we close a loan, we do a title search, and we give it a title opinion. And that title doesn’t get looked at again until one of 2 times: if they refinance and it’s a very short look, it’s not a long look, or when they sell. And when they sell, another attorney or title professional looks at that and says, “Here’s the story,” and if the story isn’t good, then you have an insurance product to insure you. And so, um, so the value of title insurance is twofold. One is itWell, 3. It lets you enjoy your property and you can count on that when you buy it, you own it. And if you don’t, you’re gonna be compensated for it. And it also ensures that when you go to sell it, you can. Because to your point, when you go to sell your house and you are now made aware of a title defect, you’re- you have 2 resources to recover. That’s coming to the attorney if they- You know, and I don’t- You know, I don’t know if you can look at me, but, and tell that I’m a lot closer to the end of my career than the beginning. If the attorney is not there, you know, and you’ve lived in your house for 25, 30 years or whatever, that’s problematic. But you have a title insurance policy, it’s like a car accident. You call up and you, youThey have a duty to defend you, transfer your house, mitigate your damages and use litigation to quiet the title if there’s a problem. That’s the value of title insurance. It’s legal insurance. And when you look at the premium and you can insure a major asset for a little bit of money, it’s a value. It’s hard to explain it ’cause it’s not sexy, and, and, um, and it takes long. Um, the final point is that title insurance is the only insurance that insures for stuff that’s already happened. Not like fire insurance. Your house is going to burn down, God forbid, you got insurance. Title insurance insures for what has already happened and what, uh, could have been missed. So people tell me all the time, “Well, you did a title search. Why do I need title insurance? “And then I get into, you know, here’s why. I buy it when, when, you know, whenAnd I recommend it. And to Patty’s point, it’s not required, but the price of admission on a quiet title action if you don’t have a policy is 25 grand. And I saw this happen once where somebody didn’t buy title insurance, there was a trust, the successor trustee wasn’t named properly, and this person, um, could not sell her house because she didn’t have a title insurance policy. So what we did is we took it on and we, and we helped her. to sell the house. Um, so it’s tough to sell ’cause it’s not sexy, but we, we really believe in it. We see it happen all the time. You need it. You need it, period. I look at it, it’s like oneI- it on average now with, uh, homeowner’s insurance, like, going up, it’s probably the cost of one year’s worth of homeowner’s insurance if you have it for as long as you have the house. Yeah. Right. Especially when, you know, more, more people, you know, are, are putting bigger down payments down. Yeah. Covers the equity. Covers the equity. You know, do youwould you, you knowYou know, it’s hard. Like, and I say stuff like this ’cause I want people to understand, you know, I- I’m not trying to sell them something. Um, you know, we have a financial interest in title insurance. We make commission off of it. That’s disclosed to the client. If we didn’t make commission off of title insurance, our closings would be more expensive. it costs a certain amount of money to do this, butYou know, I say to people, “Would you put your money in a, in a bank that’s not insured? “Of course not. When’s the last time you seen a fire? A r- real live fire? Seen them on TV. When’s the last time you saw a fire, a real fire? Does that mean you don’t buy fire, fire insurance- Mm-hmm. and then, you know, sell it? But I believe in the product. It’s a good product and we’re one of the few countries that have it, where th- you know, companies can put skyscrapers on property and buy giant title insurance policies to protect that investment. It’s a very unsung hero in the, in thein how our housing economy works. Well, that was a fun conversation about title. So, uh, on a side note, what do you guys do for fun? What do you guysUh, hobbies? I know you’re out doing spin classes. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about what you guys like to do for fun. Yeah. So, um, when I’m not working or at my desk or in closings, I do. I teach, um, a spin class on the side, um, that I love. I’ve been doing it for about 6 years. Um, and it’s really kind of likeFor me, it’s like the one place that I can just go to just shut everything out. Like I, I can’t focus on anything else besides what I’m doing in that moment, right? ‘Cause the music is so loud, like IYou know, I’m, I’m instructing clients on, you know, how to move and the choreography and everything like that, and you really have to focus on what you’re doing. So for me, um, that’s what I love to do just because, um, it relieves stress and, and for me, it’s fun. So that, I spend time with my son, um, and I try to travel every once in a while, butIt’s tough- Yeah. at the end of the month this year and as busy as it has been the last couple of months. Yeah. How about you, Big Mike? That’s a tough question. You know, man, I, I, I love the questions about title but that’s a tough one. IYou know, from the minute we get some snow on the ground to the m- you know, minute it thaws, I love to ski. I love, absolutely love it. I love everything about it. I love the cold, I love the way it makes me feel, um, I love it. Um, when it’s not snowing, I try to occupy my time until it is. Um, and I spend a lot of time with my kids. Um, my kids are, are younger, um, so I do that, uh, uh, quite often. So, you know, I’ve had to learn about Taylor Swift. Um, you know, I’m a Taylor Swift expert. Um, my 11-year-old daughter, um, made me a Taylor Swift expert. And, um, you know, and my 2 sons, you know, bring me in onYou know, I’m a, uh, I’m a, a, a music expert due to my 15-year-old son who loves, you know, different genres of music and, you know. And my oldest son, you know, makes me an expert on whatever he wants to talk about. So- It’s awesome. all-consuming with the kids is, you know, how that can be. Skiing, Taylor Swift. Yeah, what a combination. I love it. I love it. Yeah. My 11-year-old daughter’s not into Taylor Swift yet. Mine is. Kind of going back and forth. Um- She doesn’t like her new album, she said. My 6yearold is into the K-pop Demon Hunters. Have you heard of that? I have. Sounds terrible. It’s a new- I have. It’s wild. Netflix movie, uh, about Korean pop stars. Oh, yeah. And the music is extremely catchy, so. I think it’s like the number one thing going on right now. Right now. That’s- Yeah. guaranteed that’s what everyone is gonna be for H- Halloween, for sure. That hasn’t hit my house yet. Be thankful. Oh, it has. Be thankful. You just don’t know it. Like my daughter hasn’t like been blasting it but sheit’s been playing. Owen, Owen just wantsMy 6yearold, he just turned 6 on Sunday, he just wants to be Sonic. Like legitimately Sonic, soHe acts like it too. Yeah. That’sHe goes, “I just wish I was Sonic. “At least 15 times a day he says that, soWe haven’t hit the K-pop thing or whatever that is, but Sonic is- Make sure you sell Floki. Yeah. is, well, he, he got bunch of toys for his birthday and almost every single one was a Sonic toy. And then we went to my other son’s basketball practice and one of our friends, uh, they also have a kid Owen’s age. We were there watching the practice and her name’s Gina, and Gina’s like, “Hey Owen, I got you a birthday present. You know, if you come to Austin’s game tomorrow, I’ll bring it. “He goes, “Is it a Sonic toy? “And she goes, “Well, Mommy said that, you know, you got a lot of Sonic toys, so I figured I’d get something else. “She goes, “Oh, I didn’t. She lied. “”She lied. I didn’t get a lot of Sonic toys. Um, can you get me a Sonic toy? “So sheI’m pretty sure she went and returned what she bought him and got him another Sonic toy- That’s great. ’cause he didn’t let that die. He went after her for the entire hour of practice at her. Just utter disappointment that he didn’t get another Sonic toy. Yeah. Well-He got that tenacity from you. Yeah, yeah. You know, he gets fixed on something- So-he doesn’t stop. It’s fun. Yeah. Well, thank you guys for coming on the, uh, on the podcast today. We really appreciate it, and, uh, got some great expertise on title insurance and- Yeah, I think it’s important, you know. I don’tI really honestly don’t think a lot of people understand it at all. You know, most of the people, if they even ask, like mostM- and 80% don’t even ask what it is. The other 10% ask and they just take the answer of, “Hey, it’s something to protect you. “”Okay, yep, sounds good. “‘Cause it’s not super expensive to get it really at the end of the day. And then you get 10% that probably make the question actually to you guys, you know- Mm-hmm. ’cause if people get past that point, we direct them to you guys and then they get their, their question answered. But, you know, I, I don’t think people really ever get a full understanding of what it protects and the problems that can come up when you want to go sell the house, you know. We don’t see too, too many of them. Every once in a while though, it really sucks when everybody’s ready to go and there’s a title issue on the seller’s side and it’s holding up the entire closing. Yeah. Yeah, we see, you know, we, uh, we’re in the front row seat, you know, so we see it. You know, there is not a week that goes by that we’re not wondering, you know, did a seller buy title insurance and, and, and we need a policy because wethere’s a defect one way or another. Um, post-policy fraud now is something that’s big and, and we’ll do another podcast if you, you know- Yeah, yeah, absolutely. if you’d be gracious enough to have us back. But, um, you know, we love what we do obviously and, and we love partners that we trust and, you know, we know that, you know, that you w- you’re working hard for your clients and your expertise and your credibility and all that stuff. And you know, when the client has that combination of, you know, a banker and a lawyer and a real estate professional and everybody is interested and cares about that particular client, it’s a win. Yeah. And, um, and we have that with you guys, and w- we know that you feel that about us. Yeah, likewise. Yeah. So thanks for having us on. Absolutely. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you. See you guys next time.