From Corporate America to Real Estate Success with Jonathan “Wojo” Wojtowicz

I got a doctor that can fix that for you. I’ve heard about that, yeah. Highly advised. Is that, uh- Oh, yeah. I took care of that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No more. We’re not hitting 5. All right. Yeah. And we’re not gonna really get into-talking about snip, snip, snip. But Wojo, if you’re a little scared on it, I- Yeah. I’m, I’m s- backing Craig on this one. I’m like, it’s probably the best thing you can do. Yeah. I have 3 or 4 people that, that I look at and I’m like, ” Oh, yeah. You know what? These guys, they have all the tangibles. They, they’re focused, they’re laser focused.” Like, what are some of the things you look in, or look at from somebody that’s coming into the business that you can just see right off day one that if they just put their head down they’re gonna be a, a, a power player in the, in the game? Welcome back to Mortgage Daddies. We got our special friend here today. Jonathan. John Wojo. I go by Wi- I call him Wojo. Yeah. You can tell everybody your real last name ’cause I’ll butcher it. Sure, yeah. John Wojtowicz. There you go. John Wojtowicz. Yeah, we all would’ve butchered that. Since the day I met him I thought his last name was Wojo the whole time. I thought his first name was Wojo. I thought he was like Madonna e- he just went by Wojo, he saidI don’t think I’ve ever budged anything else. Most people only- Yeah. call me Wojo. That’s been the, the theme for a long time, so. Actually, in the, uhI remember this kid in high school came up to me and, uh, he was like, ” Yeah, man. I was talking to my friends about you the other day and I had no idea who you were ’cause they kept calling you John.” And I, uh, and he was like, he’s like, ” I thought his name was Wojo.” I’m like, ” No, it’s, it’s actually John,” but, yeah, most people think it’s that. Well, welcome Wojo. We, uh, we’re finally happy to get you onto the show and pick your brain and figure out all the good stuff Wojo does overOwner of RE/MAX, uh, over here in New Bedford. Got a bunch of agents sending business over. Tell us how you, uhHow’d you get into real estate? ‘Cause I know you got a lot going on. You’re an investor, you do some flips. You’re always doing flips. You’re doing some wholesale stuff. Maybe we’ll get into wholesale, about, you know, what is wholesale? I don’t think we’ve had a guest on that really described how wholesaling works. Yeah. Yeah, we could talk about- Anything. whatever you wanna talk about, you know? Uh- Yeah. Let’s start off with, like, how you got into real estate. ‘Cause I know you have a pretty cool background on how you even got into that, that piece. Yeah. Um, well, real estate kind of fell into my lap. I was doing the corporate America thing for a while. I got my degree from UMass and I thought I was gonna work for a big company and just working my way up and that was just the way to do things. And, uh, after working for some bigger corporations like Tesla and Vivint, um, and going through just, like, so many changes with the companies and big layoffs on, like, massive scales across the country and asking me to relocate to Texas and crazy things, I was like, ” I don’t really like having other people in control of, like, my destiny.” Um, and I did not wanna move to Texas. I could see you with a cowboy hat, though. Yeah. No, I’veI’ve been watching- it’d be right up your alley. Oh, yeah. been watching all of, like, the Yellowstone stuff. Oh, yeah. I watched, like, the 1881, the 1921 in Yellowstone. So I could probably get into that lifestyle. I love it. But, uh, I definitely wasn’t ready for it. um, yeah, after kind of just going through that I took a severance instead of taking the relocation. And then I said, ” I’m just gonna start working for myself.” So got my insurance licenses. I was doing New York Life for a little bit. Um, and then I got into real estate, pretty much at the same time. And, uh, the reason why I picked those 2 industries is because I looked it up online. I was like, ” How do you make the most money working for yourself in sales? ” AndEverything pointed to insurance and real estate. Yeah. Um, obviously mortgages you could do really well too, it’s real estate related. But, um, yeah. So I dived into both of them, tried them both out, um, and just loved real estate. It just kind of became natural to me. It was during the boom, COVID and everything-when, we thought the world was gonna shut down. But real estate just- Skyrocketed. skyrocketed. So, um, yeah, it worked out well. I aligned myself with some of the really good, really good people at the time. Um, and I got really lucky. I mean, I just, think I just met a lot of really good people, you know, took advantage of good relationships. When’d you start getting into the wholesale side of things? That was a little bit more recent. Um, when I started doing flips and stuff- Yeah. uh, there would be deals that I would pick up and I would say, ” Well, maybe I don’t really wanna close on this one,” or, ” Geographically it’s gonna be too far to get guys out there,” or whatever the case may be. Um, so I started looking into how could I give this deal to somebody else, which is basically what wholesaling is. Yeah. Right? You wrap up a contract and then you sell that contract to somebody else. Very simple concept. Um, but you can make good money quick. It’s a fast transaction, you know? Uh- To the people watching this worldwide, I joke around about that all the time. Worldwide. Um, wholesaling’s always intrigued me. But on the flip side of things, so I don’t want everybody who’s watching to say, ” I’m gonna just get into, to wholesaling.” Right? Because it really does sound like, ” Hey, I’m just gonna go to an auction or buy a house, then I can sell the contract for 25K over what- Yeah. I paid for it.” But thereIn my opinion, like, wholesaling comes with a lot of risk. Absolutely. The reward is there- Absolutely. but out of the whole entire real estate kind of thing where you wanna jump into, that wholesale side to me has always looked like, yeah, it’s very attractive. You can lose your shirt on that. Oh, I see people do it all the time. You know, they, uhI, I had this one kid call me up. I haven’t talked to him in, like, a few weeks. I should probably reach back out to him. He’s, like, a young kid. And, uh, he just called me with, like, this fire in his, voice. I could feel his energy. I’m like, ” I really like this guy.” But he was, like, trying to wholesale deals that were, like, advertised on MLS. So you know what I mean? So he was like, ” Hey, man. I got thisI think I can get this house for, like, 320. What do you think? ” Soliciting 325. 325. Pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah, it’s pretty much what was going on. Um, so I gotta, I gotta reconnect with that kid and see if I can help him, steer him in the right direction. But, yeah, people have this, you know, false expectation that they’re just gonna come in, pick up a house, and then they’re gonna be able to sell it quick. What if you can’t find a buyer? Yeah. Yeah. Then what do you do at that point? What if the market changes? You gotta on it you’re gonna lose your deposit. deposit. Yeah. YouYeah. Um, but it’s definitely not something that everybody should get into. You know, uh, you should have, you know, some other sources of income. I don’t think you should just stop everything you’re doing and say thisgotta have a general idea about the market and-You gotta know property, too. TheYeah,You gotta be able to identify, like, problems in a house. If you’re just looking at a house ’cause you think it looks pretty, then you’re in the wrong business. Then you’reYou have to be able to look at heating systems, electrical. You have to know if the roof is good. You gotta be able to look for some type of, you know, major structural, things like that. Um, which is stuff that, like, I teach all my agents stuff like that too. I think it’s really important to be able toIf you’re gonna be selling a house, you know, it’s kinda like if you were selling a product, right? Yeah, you need to know about the product. Essentially, right? Say, like, you came up with a product. Like, you’re one of these Shark Tank guys. You come up with this, uh, beautiful product. proud of it, you know, you’re marketing it. You know, you’re, you’re standing behind your product. In real estate, we’re selling things, right? But we’re not selling our product. We’re selling, I’m selling your product, your house. You know what I mean? So it’s different. So for me, I need to be able to kind of, you know, understand that, I think, you know? And not just, ” Hey, we like the color or the fireplace,” or, ” Look at the yard,” you know? ” Can you imagine walking down the stairs on Christmas? Your tree would be here.” Yeah. You it’s a lot more thanYou should be able to, uh, pick stuff up. Yeah, we think that that’s probably something that a lot of agents don’t focus on. But that is one of the biggest things that separates a good agent from a bad agent. I mean, you have so many people that just wanna talk about all the good things and how pretty this is or, you know, how you can lay out your living room. Absolutely. But at the end of the day, if you see something and you know and you can help them and may- this here might not be the house for you because of, you know, this. Yeah. Well, now you got a client for life- Yeah. because you didn’t talk ’em into buying some shithole for, you know, that they’re gonna have problems with. 100%. 100%, man. I think one of the key things I heard you just talk about is, you know, having some coaching, some mentorships. That young guy that’s calling you a couple weeks ago trying to buy a wholesale property that’s on MLS- Sure. that nobody’s already bought, right- Yeah, right. at, asking, so that, that’s probably not the best idea. Uh, you know, one of the things I, I come into your office quite a bit. I see your relationship that you have with your agents and I think that’s a big thing in this business. And Craig and I talk about it all the time. I coach real estate professionals, mortgage people. It’s just that mentorship, right? If somebody’s trying to get into wholesaling or flips or real estate, just selling real estate or mortgages, doesn’t matter what it is, is they really need to have a mentor. Somebody who’s done it, has a track record of it, is proven to do that. And I think you, you, you, you do that really well, right? I mean- Thank you. Can you talk about, you know, your desire to continue doing that and helping, you know, the next generation grow and kinda take over andUm, I have 3 or 4 people that, that I look at and I’m like, ” Oh, yeah. You know what? These guys, they have all the tangibles. They, they’re focused, they’re laser focused.” Like, what are some of the things you look in, or look at from somebody that’s coming into the business that you can just see right off day one that if they just put their head down, they’re gonna be a, a power player in the, in the game? Yeah, like the intangibles, right? The stuff that you’re talking about. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think we all, as, you know, successful businesspeople, no matter what role you’re in or no matter the scale of how successful you are, you can always identify somebody who kinda has what it takes. Yeah. You know, that, that magic sauce that you can’t really describe, you know? It’s the, the big personality, or maybe not a big personality, but you’re comfortable with them. ThemSomebody that you wanna talk to,Um, any sales is like that, you know? Nobody wants to be coached or pushed into doing something, right? When you’re the client. You want a pleasant experience. You want somebody that, you know, you can relate to, someone that makes you feel comfortable. So I think if you have those kind of intangible things, everything else can be taught. You know, we’re justIt’s a little bit of documents, and, it’s not that crazy, you know? It’s hard finding them and identifying them. Finding them, finding the, theI call it, like, the next Tom Brady. Like, we’re out there looking for the next GOAT. And it’s like you, sometimes you look at it and you keep looking- that’s,and you put unrealistic ex- expectations on people. That’s verylike the worst thing as a leader. And I think sometimes those people surprise you. You know, like you think you have the picture of what that GOAT is, and then somebody comes out of left field who doesn’t fit the description at all and they end up being like a rockstar. Yeah. So there’s always some of that too, youPeople who are successful, you know, different personalities in this business. Yeah. you, it’s not just one personality. I mean, as a whole, you need to be personable. You need to be able to talk to people. You need to be friendly. But there’s, you know, different ways that people go about being successful. It’s not just, like, one direction. Of course. Which is hard when you, like, if you’re one direction, you’re looking for somebody to fit that model. But there might be somebody else that, you know, maybe isn’t even as personal but they, you know, they have a great way of, you know, finding deals or talking to clients, you know- Yeah. either more via text message or, you know, are really good at social media stuff. And they’re gonna get a boatload of business that way, so it’s hard. I mean, and, then also you need the drive for the people to actually wanna put the work in because nothing, your business, our business, nobody’s gonna come in overnight and be crazy successful the next day. It’s Are they gonna be able to make it that long- Yeah. to get that point? For sure. And I think that’s another one of those kind of intangibles is being competitive. Like, people who are super competitive, if you see that they’ve won trophies or awards, or they were outstanding at their last company, or whatever the case may be, those people are hot. Yeah. Like, they’re, they’re ready to go. You can’t teach that, you know? We joke around. We’re like, ” I wonder if they played sports.” Absolutely. wonder if they played even high school sports, college sports. They were competitive in some way.” And they were just competitiveHow they compete with their brothers and sisters, right? Yep. Like, I can guarantee you, you go to a, a Snell gathering around a holiday time, like, they’re g- they’re betting on everything.” I can beat you at this. I can do that.” You know what I mean? Sure. Like, this guy doesn’t like losing to anybody justI already know this for a fact. UmUh, trying to coach my son’s eight-year-old basketball team is a challenge for me. I yell a lot. Yeah. I’m so glad I don’t have to go those. Oh,I think we should all just show up to one of Craig’snight- I might wanna go see one of days, actually. Last night I was trying so hard to like, just like calm down a little. But it justYou justThat competitiveness just comes out of you and it’s like- Yeah. It’s uncontrollable. Yeah. It is legitimatelyI mean, we could play, be playing a backyard wiffle ball game and I’m like-” All right, maybe start off slow.” By the end, I’m diving, I’m playing-yelling at people. I’m screaming. Showed up to work the next day wearing a ankle brace. Yeah. Can’t even walk, but it was worth it. I know firsthand of this. Yeah. We had a little party at my house. everybody on the basketball court and Craig’s going straight in, shoulder down, driving to the hoop- Can’t stopthrowing elbows. Can’t stop it. I love it. There’s no off switch on this. I’m play against a freaking six, six-footI’m like, ” I’ve gotta let him go by just to block him after.” Go behind him. Yeah. I know, it’s not fair. It’s not fair. No, no. Yeah. So, on, on a lighter subject, like, what do you like to do for fun? I mean, dude, I follow you on social media. You have a sick ass house that I, I was lucky enough and fortunate enough for you to invite me over kind of when you first bought the house. Oh. And I’m not gonna lie to you and all of our viewers, I, uh- You’re like, ” What the doing? ” don’t show up to your house if you invite me in the first couple weeks or months that you buy the house because, uh, like, I, I don’t really wanna go to the house. So, I showed up to Wojo’s house. I had to call him like three times on the way there. It’s like, ” Where do you live? ” He’s like, ” Long driveway, no lights on, in the middle of nowhere.” Pretty much. It’s got big dumpsters out there, monster machinery ripping shit up. And, dude, your house is transformed into a, like a palace over there now. Yeah. I see your kids riding four-wheelers through the woods. Yeah. Yeah. It’s awesome, man. Yeah. I wouldn’t call it a palace but it’s, uh, it’s, uh, fun. It’s a lot of fun. I wanted, you know, I wanted area. I wanted land, you know? care less about what the house looked like at the time. Obviously you could tell and I did a full, full reno there. Done everything to that place. Um- Cool spot though. But yeah, the location is ideal. The location’s ideal. Yeah. We have a lot of fun riding four-wheelers and we got the reservoir across the street. Go fishing, put the kayaks in. So, yeah, we have a good time. It’s awesome. Still in the middle of nowhere, so if he does- Yeah. invite you over- Well, that time it was like dirtprepare yourself for a full day. Yeah. had to pave a driveway, which is like a whole nother street. Oh, boy. But, yeah. That was- Yeah, you have one of the longest driveways I’ve ever seen. Yeah, and it goes in- You pavedand all the way. Yeah, the whole thing. Oh,Yeah, it was a lot but it was worth it. It was awesome. Yeah. It’s great for the kids to play and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Ride their bikes and their skateboards, it’s nice and smooth. So,Glad you brought that up, Wojo, right? So, uh, tell us about the little family dynamic. I know you’re chasing Craig Snell over here and you guys- Yeah. are having a little competition. I’m gonnaWe’re not gonna catch you. Yeah. I win again. You just make it thatYeah. You can have that one. Uh- Yeah. I tend to beat most people on that one too. Yeah, no, that’s a good one. Um, I don’t know if you wanna get too competitive with that ’cause- I think the only person that’ll ever beat me is probably- The Duggars? Wasn’t that like a show? Yeah. They had a bunch of kids, right? I’m like, ” Craig, you have four kids before the age of 32.” I had my first one after 32 so I’m like, ” I’m not catching up.” I thought it was a competition. Yeah, well, the third one’s on the way in July. Nice, man. Congrats. that’ll be cool. Congrats. But that’ll be three and done I think atSo. No. I mean, you never know what happens. You got a pretty good age gap between all of them, right? We got quite the age gap between them. There’s gonna be like seven years between all of them. Yeah. Like, every seven years we decide to Just when you’re out of the misery- years we’ll see what happens. start it all over again. How old are you? 33? I just turned 34 in December. 34? happy birthday, man. So yeah, you’re due for another at 40. Yeah. Are you 41? That’s theIt’s been the, uh- That’s the dream. Yeah. I got a doctor that can fix that for you. I’ve heard about them, yeah. Highly advised. Is that, uhOh, yeah. Took care of that. No more. There youWe’re not hitting five. Yeah. And we’re not gonna really get into talking about-snip, snip, snip. But, Wojo, if you’re a little scared on it, I- Yeah. I’m, I’m backing Craig on this one. I’m like, it’s probably the best thing you can do. Yeah. I’ve criedyou’re done and you’re, you’re wrapped up, like, it’s good. Like- So when I came on this podcast today, I was expecting them to be talking about things more like this. Yeah, you were like, ” Hey, real estate, vasectomy.” You started off with like, ” Hey, what is your background in real estate? ” I’m like, ” Wow, so this is-” I was like, ” Boring.” not what I expected.” ” There’s gonna be more of this kinda stuff.” Right to a vasectomy conversation. Yeah. No big deal. Snip, snip, Wojo. That’s wild. I love it. So, back to kinda real estate and, Reel this whole thing back inmortgages. Yeah, reel it back in for the vasectomy conversation. WeAll right, all right. I like it. It’s a little wild on Mortgage Daddies, no big deal. Um-You know, where do you see your, your business? I know you’re the broker/owner of a Re/Max franchise locally. Like, where do you see your business in, you know, I don’t like to go past five years. And typically, I’m like in that 12 to 24 month stage ’cause going out five years, who knows, right? Mm-hmm. Look at where you were five years ago, look where I was five years ago. It’s wild to even think like that. Yeah. Um, you know, where do you- I have no in five years. your brokerage and yourself personally like in the next 12 to 24 months? Like, the market-wise, I mean- Yeah. growing your agency? Yeah. So, um, I kinda see, like, a lot of the same of what I’m doing now, but just hopefully on a bigger scale. Um, when I first got into this thing, I was all about, like, growing the agency and bringing as many people as I possibly could. I’m not really all about that anymore. I kinda like havingI like to have a lot of agents, don’t get me wrong, but I’m very protective of, like, who I bring into the business now, you know. Yeah. Um, we have such an amazing culture. Everybody at my place is like the coolest people inYeah. It’s, it’s like I can’t even believe we put that many good people together ’cause I feel like the way the world is nowadays, like, good people are hard to find, you know. It’s hard, yeah. Um, yeah. Trying to get 20, 30, 40 people that all get, get along and don’t have problems and there’s no drama- Totally, it’s crazy,very hard. We have none of that. We have none of that. We got a great place to come and work where everybody supports each other and everybody has a goodUm, so, I’d like to continue more of that. Mm. Just maybe a couple of more locations. Um, and then I’ve been doing a lot more on the construction side of things, so, um, with like flips and things like that. I’d like to start getting into new construction. Nice. I got a good relationship now with a buddy of mine, Dave, Dave Vermet, and he’s been such a big help with a lot of my projects, helping me, connecting me with different guys in how to do pricing and get better deals. And I’d like to start building eventually, um, you know. he said he’d, you know, help me out in the beginning, kind of show me some stuff, so I’m excited abouta mentor. Uh,No matter what you do- Yeah,if you haven’t done it, find a mentor. Yeah, no, he’s been, uh, he’s been such a huge help. He’s been so good toUm, but I like the construction side of things, like even my own deals. Right before I came here, I was in a four-family in Fall River that I’m renovating, um, we’re doing all the plumbing in. I’m gonna do a lot of the plumbing with my plumber, uh, my buddy Steve Botello, SB Plumbing. The guy’s excellent. Um, actually they saved me last night. Uh, last night I got a phone call from one of my tenants, this is kinda going off topic here, but I get a phone call last night from my third floor tenant, uh, one of my buildings in Fall River, and he’s like, uh, ” John, John.” He’s like a 15-year-old kid, little language barrier, you know, from, uh, Brazil. And, uh, he’s like, ” Hey, there’s, there’s water coming down the stairs. There’s water pouring down the stairs.” So I’m thinking like, like a waterfall-you know, like there’s water pouring down the stairs. Um, it wasn’t that bad. It wasn’t that bad. But, you know, I’m like coaching this kid, I’m like, ” Hey, man, go down in the basement, like shut the water off. We’ll be there in an hour.” So I made two phone calls. I called my buddy Steve, SB Plumbing, came right out, he was on the scene within an hour. He was in Dartmouth, dropped everything he did, went back to his house in Tiverton, got in his box truck, drove over. Um, and then one of my best friends, Tom Martin, Quality Check Home Inspection, best home inspector in the area, guy’s the man. Uh, called him up ’cause he’s got thermal imaging cameras. So if you ever have a water leak or something like that- Mm. call this guy up for thermal. You don’t have to start ripping open walls. He just goes like this, finds out exactly where the problem is. Oh, yeah, that’s a good idea. So it ended up being a dishwasher. So I’m en route on my way there. These guys show up on the scene. They got the whole thing figured out before I even get there. I like that. They turned itaround and went back. I didn’t have to do anything. And, uh, they didn’t, they didn’t charge me nothing,That’s awesome. But like, these are like, like, again, like the kind of people that- Who he’s raised with,I’ve and the relationships, like, it’s, it’s a blessing. It’s, it’s unbelievable. That’s awesome. But kinda circling back, like the whole construction side of things, um, I, I went to the house right before here. You know, we’re gonna be doing some plumbing. I’m gonna be doing a lot of it myself, um, with my plumber, obviously. And then, uh, electrical stuff, I’ve been, you know, doing little things here and there, just trying to learn that aspect. Framing, just, I mean, I feel like you gotta kinda know the whole, you gotta know the whole thing, you know? And that’s gonna make me even better at being a broker and, and coaching agents, so- Yeah. And when you start building houses. Yeah, they go hand in hand too, you know. I mean, if I’m gonna sell ’em, I might as well know everything about ’em, might as well build them, might as well be able to fix ’em, might as well be able to do everything, so. Do you think there’s less risk on being, doing new construction than, like, flips? Eh. Feel like you kinda know what your price points are after you do it a couple of times. You kinda know what the costs are going out. You know what you pay for the land. I mean, you could always have some things pop up. You thought you were building and digging into dirt and it turns out to be ledge or something, but- Yeah. for the most part, I don’t know. I, I’ve never done it, right? Yeah. I’ve never had that desire to, to jump in it. I don’t, I don’t know too much about the new constructions thing. I would say it’s- I, I’ve never done one, uh-it’s more work in regards to, like, the setup. Yeah. You know? I would say if you know- The plans. I would say if you know what you’re doing and you do your due diligence and you go into either one of them, then you should have a good outcome. You know? I don’t think anything should be that big of a surprise where it’s blowing up your deal. Then you must’ve missed something in the process. And if, and if not, I mean, I, I can’t really think about, like, something that big that would, you know, just blow a whole deal up unless their deal was really tight. Mm. But whether it’s new construction or flips or whatever, if, if you’re good at what you’re doing, you know, all the top players in those games, they’re, they’re making money on all their deals, you know? Yeah. They’re not losing outI think with new construction too, I mean, just from what I see, it’s in volume. Like, if you can buy land, split it up, build multiple houses, your profit- Absolutely. level just went way up. If you gotta buy one lot and you’re paying top dollar for the lot and then you’re gonna go put a house on it, you’re not gonna have as much profit. Sure. Yeah. You know? But some of those guys that can acquire some good amount of property, spend the money, break it up, but you gotta know what you’re doing and to make sure that- Speedyou can do it quickly. Yeah. Because everything costs money. You know, what I think a lot of people don’t understand is, you know, how do people do this? Not everybody has millions of dollars to be able to just put out right away to fund all these things, and when they close, they close. No, most of the people are borrowing money, either a hard money loan or some type of a loan from a bank, and that interest starts to add up very, very quickly and that can eat into your profits drastically. Definitely. And that’s one of the things that I find that a lot of people who are newer in either a flip, notI mean, not a lot of people get into a new construction right away, so usually people start with flips and then kinda- Sure. work from there. But with a flip, you know, they look at it, ” Okay, I can make this, I can make, we’re gonna make 50 grand.” While the project you thought was gonna take 3 months took you a year and a half because you didn’t know what you were doing. You didn’t have things timed out correctly. You, you moved forward and then you had to take 2 steps back, and all of a sudden, all your profit just went away, just in interest. And it’s also, like, the phases of the project, when you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re doing things out of order. That’s huge. Yeah. And that’s, and that’s costing you a lot of money, you know, ’cause sometimes you’re damaging things you already did. You have to go back and redo it, and then now, like, you did this first or this other guy, now it’s in the way, you know? It’sYou have to know kind of, uh- Yeah, the order of how toorder of operations of the, fromAnd be able to have people that work with you to be able to show up when you need them to show up. Ouchies. You get into a flip and you’re like, ” Hey, I need a, you know, electrician.” Absolutely. You call an electrician, he can’t be there for a month, the whole project stops. You gotta have backup guys. Yeah. Yeah, you gotta have your go-to crew, right? The people that you use all the time. Then you gotta have some people ready to step in if they’re busy, you know? Th- an electrician was a great point. Um, my buddy Jason Duart, um, Duart Electric, he’s probably one of the best electricians in the area. Um, does excellent work. All the inspectors rave about this guy. And, uh, he had a huge project that occupied 2 months of his time. And, but he told me beforehand, he was like, ” Hey, man, listen, like, I’m not gonna be able to help you out for a couple of months. I got all this stuff going on, so if you pick up any houses, you’re gonna have to refer the, uh, electric out to somebody else.” But at least he told me- Yeah, I mean, it happens. It’s impossible you If I didn’t have somebody else ready to go, what am I gonna do? Sit down, wait 2 months? Carrying costs for 2 months. Yeah, you do that. Yeah. No way. It’s gonna cost you thousands of dollars, tens of thousandsI think if anyone’s, like, interested in looking into getting into something like that, partner with somebody that has experience doing it. Absolutely. Even if you don’t make as much money on your first deal or your second deal, do a few with somebody. At least you’ll make money. At least you’ll make money- money. and, and you’ll be able to learn. education. You might think you know, but there’s so many little things that come up that you’re not gonna be aware of, and then your, your project’s just gonna get delayed. Yeah. You’ll get it done in a fraction of the time doing it with somebody that has experience that can help you learn how to do it, and then go off it. Yeah. I see it all the time with people who get into it. Me too, buddy. I agree. And the people who don’t and they try to do it, usually there’s somebody coming in to try to save it at the end- Right. Right. fix it, but, and then there’s no money to be made. Right. Then you lost it all. Yeah. Everybody wants to flip houses. HGTV, everybody wants to do it. Sounds cool. Sounds cool. Yeah. Not really cool. Yeah. You earn just about every dollar you do on a house flip. Like- You do. You gotta love it. Yeah. You gotta enjoy it. So- gotta get in there and get your handsIt’s time-consuming too. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I don’t have the time. Absolutely. I’ve, I’ve tried, dabbled in it a little, more as a partner with, with a few people and I really have any interest in doing it. I just don’t have the time- Yeah. to go show up to the job, make sure it’s moving and you, it- Yeah. it takes a lot of time. If you got a good crew though, you a lot Yeah. Yeah, once you get it running- got, somebody you can rely on- Yeah. then,Yeah, I mean, the guy you’re talking about- he can’t be on site, you know. Dave, obviously, you know, I know him. Dude, that guy’s on site every day. EverySo he bought- Multiple times day. bought my house from him, as y- obviously you guys know. Yeah. Yeah. And he’s building a house right next to me, which my dad’s buying. Yeah. Which is why I’m very excited about. That’s gonna be awesome. It’s almost done. He is there, I, I don’t even know how many times a day. In and out, checking on things, running things. The other night, I get home from my son’s basketball game and I’m like, ” Dave, what are you doing here? ” He’s like, ” Ah, had to put a dehumidifier in the house.” He’s like, ” I had to do this. I’m gonna run home and get this.” You know, he’s always just to make sure the project’s moving as quickly as possible, and, uh, uh, I mean, you have to. If not, things aren’t getting done in the order they need to get done in and you’re losing money, you’re losing time and- Yeah. you know, he builds a very good product at a very quick timeframe. Yeah. I mean, I don’t think anybody builds something that fast and at that yeah. the quality and the level he does? No, absolutely not. He’s, yeah, he’s got it dialed in. Yeah. I mean, what’s he got? The 90-day guarantee? It’s crazy. Once the foundation’s in, he’ll have that house done in 90 days. All the finish work, everything. beautifully, meticulously done. But, you know, that’s because he’s on it. He’s there- Yeah. every day, multiple times a day, making sure everything goes right. And, but that’s his product, like we talked about, right? Yeah. Like, when you’re selling something and you have the product, you wanna have a good product, you know what I mean? You wanna deliver the best of the best. So, um, it’s important to, you know, like I said, in real estate, it’s important to know all that stuff. Know everything about the property. It’s gonna make you more, more dangerous out there. That’s, I think, really like, his only thing he dabbles in, right? He only does new construction. I’ve never heard him doing flips or anything like that. I mean, for the most part- started out- Yeah. that way, I’m sure. You know? Um- Well, like you said, I think everybody starts off doing flips. Yeah. And then if they really like it, unlike Craig or myself, and they really like doing flips, then they’re like- So does Enzo.” Let’s mess around with some new cr-” Yeah. We don’t want- So Enzo doesn’t keepgood, I was good at that point. My wife’s like, ” We, we should just build a house.” I’m like, ” I am not building my own house, or being part of that. There’s a million decisions you have to make. I’m just gonna buy one that’s already done, because” Every single new client that walks into my office and says they want to build a house, I say, ” Great. I’m, I can help you. I, I’ll help you finance it. We’ll go through the entire process.” Only ask I have for you is to, you guys should really think about divorce attorneys. You guys should talk to them. Because I have seen 50% of the clients that come in and start new construction, within a year, either during that process or after, I’m getting a phone call, ” Hey, we need to sell the property.” Because- Really? I’ve had clients run out of money. Right? Yeah. You borrow $400,000 for a new construction, you think you’re gonna be your GC. So you start doing all this. The wife getsor the husband, right? I’m not picking on the ladies out there.” Oh, the kitchen’s coming in. We budgeted 40,000 for the kitchen.” ” Oh, but I can get these faucets, do all this. 65,000.” Yeah.” Oh, bathroom upgrades, this.” Next thing you know, they’re coming in for their finals, they have no lawn in, no driveway’s not completed. I’ve had new construction, no decks. They’re just out of money. So now it becomes a financial burden on, you know, a, a young couple in their late 20s, early 30s, building their dream house- Yeah. that turned out they’re short 100,000. The bank’s looking at it like, ” The house isn’t worth this when it’s done, so we can’t give you any more. Now-” Yeah, Ithe stress comes in. I don’t know how people can get into a situation like that. I mean, they’re just being misguided, you know? Yeah. You got good people behind you, that should never happen. They’re typically always wanting general contract. I mean, that’s for a whole nother show, but- Yeah, and they get-you being your own GC. quotes things at this, and they wanna upgrade, upgrade, or this costs more by the time they get there. And they don’t have the relationships- And up. with the plumbers, the electricians. they’re paying top dollar for everythingWell, that’s what happens. I mean, yeah, they’re paying top dollarThis isn’t what they do for a living. I tell people, like- They don’t know how much things cost too. No. So they actually don’t even know that they’re paying top dollar. I tell people all the time, when they want to build a new house, go find the piece of land. And I could be totally wrong. This is just my opinion. Go find the piece of land, have an architect draw up your dream house, and then go have a builder build it for you. Do not ask any more questions. Tell them what you want, have them build it all, and have them call you when, you know, you get into the 95% done, and it’s like, ” We need faucets and towel racks,” or something, because- Yeah. if you’re in that transaction, in, in that build too closely, it’s not gonna end well. No, I agree. I agree. Then they find out how much they disagree on colors of walls. It’s crazy what I’ve seen them fight over. I’m like, ” Okay, that’s good. move on.” Buy a house that’s already done. That’s what100%. Rehab it. It’s much easier. Do whatever you want. Much easier. It’s the moral of the story. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you know what you’re doing, I guess, it’s different. But- Yeah. if you don’t know what you’re doing, I wouldn’t start building houses. So what’s your golf game gonna look like this summer with the baby? Better than it’s ever been. Yeah, yeah. IIt’s gonna be so good. Yeah. Yeah. Wife will be home with the baby. Yeah. We’ll each be like, ” I’m working really late this-” Yeah. No, no. I’m gonna, uh, I’m gonna be good this year. I was good last year, so I think I’m gonna be good this year. Getting better. You playing over the winter at all? No,I mean, I go see my dad in South Carolina a little bit, and we’ll probably go play a few times. But- Yeah. there’s not really much I can do up here right now. Yeah. No, no. I just went down to Florida last weekend, 2 weekends ago. Uh, little trip. Try to do another one or 2. But before you know it, the winter’s over. So when you go on those trips and you haven’t played in a while, it’s either you play amazing or you play terrible. Yeah. Yeah, this was the first year I played amazing. Good. Yeah. So it made it more enjoyable. Yeah, I got a hole in one. Oh my goodness. Broke 80s every day. Wow. Yeah, it wasI don’t know what was hap- I also, I bought a townhouse right near the golf course, so I was like, in bed at a much decent hour, got some sleep. It wasn’t as crazy- Gotcha. as a trip as it usually is for me. Gotcha. So I think that helped. But yeah, you never know where that ball’s gonna go after not playing for 3 months. Right. Exactly. Exactly. But it went in the hole. That’s amazing. That’s all you can ask for, right? Yeah. Couldn’t get any better thanWell, can do that every time. I’d retire if I had a hole in one. Like, I already am retired, so. You ” That’s it. I’ve done it.” Throw in the towel. It I did did it with my dad and Eric and, uh, Steve Miranda. That’s cool. We were all playing the first day practice round. The only reason why I went in was because I forgot my 7 iron here, so I ended up hitting like, a hard 8. Otherwise I would’ve nev- otherwise I would’ve skied it right over. That’s awesome. It was a funny story. We’re like- How many hole in ones have you hit, have you got in your career? That’s my second. Yeah. Wow. I had one in the spring when, uh, we were playing in a tournament. I was actually with my dad again, and we were playing when I, when I got one. I got like a half of one when I was like 12. I was, uh, playing at Allendale. How do you get a half of one? I’ll tell you the story. So- Is that a real thing? So I hit it in water- ball just went in the hole and came out? Yeah. popped out. So I hit my first one in the water. Re-teed. Oh, gotcha. And then hit it in. Okay. So I count it as a hole in 1 Yeah. until I actually got a real hole in one. Yeah. Now I don’t count it anymore. So you made par? Yeah. But it was a sweet par. It was a sweetMemorable. That’s great. That’s awesome. I think I ran at that time. A little different now. I get a hole in one, I’m like, ” Hey, yeah, congrats,” now. But I think I was 12, I ran the whole way. Ran into the hole, yeah. the whole way to the hole. Yeah. I haven’t got one yet, so- No? when it happens- You’re running. I’m gonna run, yeah. I hope there’s water. I’ll run. just wanna see you dive right in. I’ll swim across it. Alligator-infested lake in South Carolina. Just gonna dive right in. Oh, I know. It’s gonna be great. Al- The tournament I play in in, uh, April down in f-I’m not playing this year ’cause we’re going on our, uh, company trip, but the, it’s like a member guest tournament. And whoever wins the tournament has to jump in the, in the, in the lake. I’m like, ” I don’t wanna win. I’m not going in there.” Wow. There’s alligators in the lake? Oh, yeah. 100%. Yeah. No, I’m like, That sounds terrible. I’ll, throw it. Like, if I’m in the finals, I’ll just be like, ” Eh.” I actually caught an alligator once. I feel like the last place team should ju- have to jump in the lake. Yeah. Not the first place team. Crazy, man. I’m like, ” What is wrong with these people down here? ” That’s wild. Yeah, we, uh, my son did, actually. He caught an alligator on a fishing rod. Really? Yeah, it was nuts. South Carolina. He really wanted to go fishing, so I took him. We were at my dad’s house on the golf course. some of the ponds there, you can go fishing. So with this little bench, we went fishing. Soon as that bobber hit the water, a gator came out and just whapped it. So he hooked the gator and reeled them all the way onto the shore. I got it on film. nuts, yeah. We had to cut him loose, obviously. I didn’t, didn’t know what to do with him. Just, just cut the string. We got him all the way to the shore, though. It was crazy, yeah. Woj was on the back of the alligator too. Oh, it was nuts, yeah. It wasmoving to Texas, IAnd my son was so excited about it too, and I’m like, ” This is all the danger.” Like, this is a real alligator. But, uh- Your poor wife. Yeah. She’s like, ” What are you doing, Woj, yo? ” We’re just out going nuts in the yard all the time. Oh, man. Riding ATV’s, going crazy. IYeah. I saw the one you got your son for Christmas. Oh, the side by side? Does he blast around on that thing? Yeah. He has a great time on that thing. UmOh, that’s funny. That’s something he was, he was asking for, uh, something. ‘Cause he outgrew his go-kart. Yeah. So we used to kind of do, just ride the go-kart around, a little off-road go-kart. Now the kid’s a monster. He’s just turned 13 years old and he’s 5’9″ , 195 pounds. He’s a monster. Yeah. So we got him into these like, football trainings and stuff. He’s gonna be, he’s gonna be something. That’s awesome. But umBut yeah, he’s just so big. So I had to get him like, a full-sized, like, pickup truck. Just to drive around. So, uh, but yeah, we got him the side by side. It’s a blast. IThat’s awesome. Yeah. Well, all right, my man. Well, thank you very much. Yeah. You wanna play a little Jenga? Sure. I’d rather- know you thought it was fake, but we’ll show everybody that it’s real. really good at Jenga. You gotta pull a question, my man. I just gotta pick one of these outta here? Pick any one you want. Just don’t take like, a top one, ’cause it’s Gene. If it falls, isUh, honestly, nobody’s ever dropped it. Oh. Yeah. Oh, man. Who, who do I have to ask this to? You guys? That’s you. You have to answer that. I have to answer this question? Yeah. It’s asking me what is my biggest fear? Alligators. Jeez. Nah, that was not- Clearly not. Not. Not an alligator wrangler over here. My biggest fear. Man. Like, I wanna just say like, I don’t fear anything. That’d be pretty tough. I’m savage. But, umJavier’s looking at me in the corner likeUm, my biggest fear. My actual- in a dark alley. All those muscles. actual biggest fear will probably never come true. And that would probably be failing. Failing at something I gave my all to. But that’ll neverThat’s a good one. What about you? Therefore, I fear nothing. I’m kidding. My biggest fear? Uh, I’m gonna have to go with heights. Oh. Like, full disclosure, heights. Like, my wife makes fun of me. I’ll suck it up for my kids every once in a while. It’s weird. Like, I’ll do some roller coasters ’cause I have kids. I gotta, I gotta man up and dad up for those. Sure. But, uh, I was just out in Washington with my wife. We went up to the, uh, the tower out there. They have the glass floor. Oh, that’s awesome. And moves around, like the Needle in Seattle. That is so cool. Big guy wasn’t getting on that. No. I saw that thing moving around and be likeIt wa- was moving at like this speed. Not even moving. I had some random stranger like, throw- So you wouldn’t go skydiving? 0 chance. Really? Like, for what? I that. That was nuts. IfI look at it this way. When you have to fill out life insurance and they’re like, ” Are you gonna be doing like, one of these 3 things? ” And skydiving being one of them. Yeah. And they will terminate your policy. I don’t think anybody should jump out of a perfectly good airplane. Hm. If it was crashing- But got a perfectly goodstrap me up, I’m jumping out. I mean. But like, if they’re like, ” Hey, danger, danger on the plane,” I’ll be the first one out of the chute. But I’m not jumping out of a perfectly good airplane. I agree with you on that one. No chance. No. Yeah. I had some second thoughts when I was up there, butBungee jumping? That’sI know if I could do it. Like, I like, watch a movie and somebody looks over an edge and my legs tingle. Hm. Yeah. I don’t think I could jump outYou ever watch those like, videos of the guys that climb the cranes and stuff? Oh, yeah. My legs just tingle the wholeThat’s crazy. See, I, I don’t thinkI don’t, I couldn’t do that. No. But I’m not climbing a crane on top of a building. With nothing attached toThere’s no way I’mthey climb the buildings. I’m likeI can’t do it. One slip and you’rejumping out of a plane, that’s not s- actually fun. I mean, I’d rather do that than try to climb a building likeYeah. with nothing. Makes more sense, yeah. Yeah. Way morepeople jump out of planes. Yeah. The rock climbers that I see, like I, uh, I’m up in New Hampshire a lot. I don’t even like getting to the edge drop-off. Yeah. What if I trip? What if the whole entire like, lets gives out? I I don’t think it’s worth it, to be honest with you. No. I mean, the, the plane thing and the parachute’s notI’d probably rather do that. But my man, thank you for coming on. It was a pleasure. I wish you a lot of success with the, uh, business this year. Thank you. everything you guys wanna do. And I look forward to seeing you build some houses. Yeah, no, I appreciate it, man. Maybe I’ll buy one from you one day. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Thanks, Woj, y’all. I appreciate it, my man. Thank you.