Mortgage Refinancing 101

Welcome back to Mortgage Daddies! Today, we’re gonna be talking about refinancing. Hopefully it’s something that, uh, will be a good possibility for a lot of people in the future as rates continue to drop. So we’re gonna kind of talk about it, let you guys know some things you should look for, some options you have, plus some myths that there are out there where a lot of people don’t think that they can refinance. I’m Vernon. I run the top mortgage brokerage in Massachusetts with over 20 years of experience. I’m Craig. I’ve done $100 million consistently since my second full year in the business and I’m Massachusetts’ top mortgage broker. We’re the Mortgage Daddies, with real advice, real stories, and real results. Let’s get going. We had somebody in our office that their parents took out a loan 30-plus years ago at 11% and paid the entire loan off over time through the 30 years and stayed at 11%. So it kind of brought up the topic that, uh, you know, I think a lot of people aren’t very educated on the options they have, uh, so I figured this would be a good episode. Refinance 101, we’re gonna call this, with Craig and Vern. I’m gonna ask Craig all the questions. He’s the professional now at this point. Plus, I don’t want to screw anything up. So let’s just start pretty simple. What is refinancing? So a refinance, uh, there’s a few different options that you can do, but basic- basically is you’re refinancing your existing mortgage, uh, to either lower the interest rate, shorten the term, change the terms of it, you know, if you’re in an adjustable going into a fixed rate. But typically most people when they refinance, they’re lowering their interest rate that they have on their existing mortgage. Yeah. Let’s go over that one. So that’d be a rate and term refinance. What does that consist of for anybody who’s watching this? Yeah, so a rate and term refinance would be when you are not taking any money out of the property, you’re just refinancing the existing loan that you have. So for example, if you have a $300,000 loan at 7% and the rates drop and they’re at 5%, you refinance down to 5%. You can also look at shortening the term, keeping the same term that you have, going back to a 30-year mortgage, resetting the term. Uh, you know, most people when they look at refinancing, as the interest rate drops, their payment’s obviously gonna lower. So if that’s important at that time in life, then they’ll either stay at the existing term that they have or go back to a 30-year to really capitalize on keeping that payment as low as possible depending on where they are in their life. Other people will look at dropping the term. It’s a great time to look at lowering the term to get an even lower interest rate. You go with a 15-year mortgage versus a 30-year mortgage, your interest rate’s gonna be lower. Payment’s gonna be higher, but you’re paying more towards principal, less towards interest, so you can pay off the loan a lot faster, save a lot more money over time if things work out well. A lot of times you can kind of be in a position where your payment kind of stays at where you were at, but you’re really lowering the interest rate, knocking off 15 years off your mortgage, and paying the s- similar amount that you have, but getting that paid off a lot sooner. Yeah, I have a lot of clients that would pay on their mortgage for 5 years, refinance it to a rate and term, go to a 15-year fixed, the mortgage payment almost stays the same. And really the savings on that interest cutting off 10 years is instrumental for a lot of people being able to build wealth that way. Yeah, if you ever look at an amortization schedule on a mortgage, a 30-year, it’s very, very interest heavy, uh, and over time it slowly starts to shift until you kind of hit that 15-year mark- Yeah. and then it starts to go towards more principal, less towards interest. So if you can get into a 15-year mortgage, you’re really knocking down that, uh, balance a lot faster that way. A lot of people, I think we’re gonna be seeing this coming up a lot over the next, uh, 30 to 60 days if there is any reduction in interest rates, which everybody’s talking about with the Fed, uh, probably reducing that over the next- a few times over the next probably 6 to 12 months, is cash out refis, right? We’ve talked about there being crazy amount of credit card debt, personal debt, um, more loans taken out against, you know, 401s and, and retirement accounts than ever before. Um, talk about a little bit that goes into a cash out refinance, what somebody could use that money for on a cash out refinance. Yeah, so a cash out refinance would be you’re going to refinance your existing loan. Keep this as the same example. You- say you owe $300,000, but you bought the house 6 years ago, and now the house is worth $600,000. You have a lot of equity in the property, so you’re- tap into the equity to be able to pull out one new mortgage at a higher amount, so let’s just say $400,000. So you take out $100,000. You have one loan now. There’s a difference between a cash out refinance and, say, a home equity line or home equity, uh, loan where you’re gonna have a second mortgage and pay on that separately. This would be combining it together so you’d have one new mortgage for $400,000 at whatever the new interest rate is to do that, and people will do that to either pay off credit card debt, um, pay off, you know, or maybe do some work on the property that they have. You know, a lot of people want to, you know, put a new kitchen in, you know, do some work on the property, put a pool in, whatever it is, and they can pull the equity out of the property and have one loan that has a fixed rate, say it’s a 30-year term at a fixed payment, versus going with a home equity line, home equity, um, loan where usually the interest rate’s a little bit higher, the term shorter, so your payment’s higher on that. And I’ve seen a lot with the, the clients that I’ve been working with, they’ve already pulled out a home equity loan or a home equity line of credit over the last 3 to 5 years because the interest rates went from two and a half to 7 overnight, so we’ve seen a lot of people where they want to pay off a home equity line and they have an additional $25,000, $30,000 in credit card debt, um, and they have some renovations. They can go and do all of those things all at once with one cash out refi, kind of clean up their entire, um, background, their credit profile in a matter ofI mean, how long does it take you to close a cash out refi? 3 weeks, 4 weeks at max. Clean all that stuff up, and obviously, you know, on our end we understand this, but on a cash out refinance the rate’s a little bit higher than on a rate and term refi. So what I try to tell people all the time is, pull out as much cash to do everything you need one time so, you know, 6, 12, 18 months down the road you’re not trying to search for a home equity loan or, or going back to credit cards as we’re trying to clean up your, your lives. Yeah, I see a lot with people where they, you know, over time, say they bought the house 5 years ago. racked up a lot of credit card debt, they haven’t tapped into the equity of the house because their rate’s lower. But as, you know, maybe they took out a home equity line, maybe they didn’t, but, you know, credit scores can get affected by the utilization on your credit. So if you have a lot of credit out and everything’s maxed out, your credit score’s not necessarily the best. So kinda doing it in a 2step plan where, yes, rates may go down more in a year or 2. Great, if that works out, that’s awesome, you can always refinance again. But not waiting too long until it’s too late is important. Yeah. So many times people wait too long. They don’t, they’re so afraid of losing their 3% interest rate, but they’re paying 15, $2,000 a month in credit cards and loans that they just can’t c- and that’s just paying the minimums. Yeah. And they’re maxed out, their credit’s going down, and if they wait too long, all of a sudden now they start to miss payments, they miss a mortgage payment, now you’re gonna be kind of in a position where you can’t tap into that equity. So even if you have to do a cashout refinance, get a little bit of a higher rate to do it, pay off all your debt, now your credit score’s gonna jump up. Yeah. 6 to 12 months the rates come down more, now you can refinance into a rate and term at that point where you’re not pulling money out where the rate’s lower, and then set yourself back up thatIf you get used to that payin- payment on the cashout refinance, maybe at that point when you go to do that rate and term, you can knock- About 15, 18. off 5 years or 10 years off your mortgage. And, you know, being on the broker side, we can do a custom term. A lot of people don’t understand what that means. So if you have 26 years and 3 months left on your mortgage, Craig can write that loan for 26 years and 3 months or customize your term however you want it. It doesn’t have to just be a 15 or 20 or 25, it can be a 24. 3. It can be 21 month, 21 years. So, um, there’s, there’s one refinance on here we’re gonna talk about. They, they gave us the notes. It’s called a cash-in refinance. Now I’ve been doing this for about 20 years and I’ve seen about probably 5 cash-in refinances total. It’s not very common. Um, you know, we’d see it maybe if somebody’s selling another house, bought a house with a smaller down payment, kinda brought that cash over. So tell us a little bit about a cash-in refinance. So when you bring money to the table, so, you know, say you bought a house 6 months ago, you put 5% down because your, hadn’t sold your other property yet, now you can do a couple of different options. I mean, you could recast the mortgage where you’re gonna just pay a one-time principal payment which is gonna lower it, and then if you just did that, it’s not gonna lower your payment, it’s just gonna lower your principal. So you could recast the mortgage where it’s gonna re-amortize the loan out to drop your payment. But if rates have come down and now it makes sense to refinance and you wanna put that additional, uh, principal towards the loan, maybe to get rid of the mortgage insurance or get a better loan-to-value to get a better interest rate, you can always bring money to the- Okay. table and pay down the loan at that time. So, you know, f- for example, you bought a house at 500,000, you put 5% down 6 months ago. The value probably hasn’t come up that much that you’re gonna be able to do a refinance and get rid of your mortgage insurance. But if you just sold the property and you made $250,000 and you wanna take that money and put it down, eh, if it makes sense to refinance at the time, don’t pay the recast fee, just d- re-amortize it, wait to refinance, and, and pay that lump sum at that time. All right. So for all our viewers that are watching out there that have a VA mortgage or an FHA loan or even USDA loan, those all have where you can do a streamline refinance. Briefly, over, you know, an overview on all 3 of those, what is an FHA streamline or a VA IRRRL? Yeah, so they’re pretty much quick and easy refinances. So there’s no appraisal on the property, so you save yourself on the appraisal fee. Uh, you don’t have to worry if, you know, especially with FHA and VA loans, sometimes, you know, the properties wh- where we are in New England, may be passed FHA 3 years ago, but now, you know, the, the deck’s peeling or there’s some peeling paint or whatever and it’s not gonna pass an FHA appraisal. Doing a streamline, there’s no appraisal needed, there’s no income docs needed. You don’t have to requalify for the loan. That’s really the biggest thing. So if you, um, you know, you don’t have to show that you’re even working. So if your job h- history has changed or, you know, say you were, um, you know, working, you were salaried when you qualified for the loan a year ago but now you just changed jobs and your commission, well you can’t necessarily qualify for a traditional mortgage where you have your income ’cause now you have to wait a year. With a streamline, you don’t need to verify any income. You’re not requalifying for the loan because how those are looked at is you already qualified for the loan while it’s- You’re already paying on it. e- you’re already paying on it. You have to show that you’ve been making the payments on it and you’re not late on anything. But if you haven’t been, you already qualified for the higher payment. So now it’s dropping, so they will qualify you without having to verify any income. Closing costs are typically a lot cheaper because of that. Everything’s a little reduced. And you’re pretty much able to drop your interest rate without having to go through a full refinance process where you have to submit W-2s, pay stubs, income has to be reviewed, appraisal on the property. It’s a lot faster and it’s a lot easier. I was- And you’re kind of protected, too. Like, not in our area, I don’t think we’ll ever have this problem, but if, like, the value of your houseYou know, say you did a VA loan, you put no money down. Well, now that property, if there was an appraisal problem, you don’t have to worry about that. The, the value of the house is already good. You don’t have toYou’re kind of market protected- Yeah. you know, with those type of loans, which is nice. And they’re backed by the government, so the government wants to make sure that they get repaid, the banks get repaid. So obviously, the interest rates go down a half a percent, a full percent, it’s time to refinance your VA or your FHA loan. Um, couple other things that I get i- questioned a lot on is when is the right time to refinance, right? There’s a lot of people out there that are sitting on seven, seven and a quarter, seven and a half, and they’re saying, and I’m hearing it, which is scary, “I wannaI’m gonna wait ’til the rates get lower. I’m gonna wait until they get lower. “I’m like, “You don’t time the market,” right? Like- Yeah, it’s like playing with the stock market. Can you save, can you save $300 now? YouAnd you can always refinance again, right? 6, 12 months down the road, they change again. Um, I don’t suggest anybody sitting on the sidelines. If you sat on the sidelines f- 3, 4, 5 years ago when interest rates were low and the values of the houses were everybody thought were too high, they’re gonna come down, I don’t see house values coming down now either. So, uh, you know, if you’re sitting at an interest rate where you can save 2, 3, $400 a month by just reducing your rate without needing cash out. If you need cash out, it’s definitely time for you to reach out to your mortgage professional to really get an entire update on what’s going on with your profile to find out where your cashflow is really going. There’s a lot of people out there spending $1,500 to $2,500 just in minimums on credit cards, uh, over the last 5 years racking up some of that debt. Um, so Craig, when is the best time for people to refinance, um, and what are some good signs? Obviously, you know, interest rates going down is a, is a prime example, but what are some other ones? Yeah. I mean, I think as far as a good time to refinance, it really depends on your scenario. It’s not gonna be the same for everybody because your loan size matters. You know, how much the interest rate drops and how much that’s gonna save you on payment depends on your loan size, right? Yeah. You have $100,000 loan, you may need to wait ’til you have a much bigger drop in the interest rates to really make it make sense to refinance. If you have a much higher loan, well, a half a percentage point can change your payment 3, $400, where it could make sense to refinance every time it drops a half a percentage point. So it really depends on, you know, the loan size, in my opinion, you know, and what your plan is long-term. I mean, there’s a lot of factors that go into it. I would never refinance somebody just to refinance them- Yeah. to save a couple hundred dollars, if they’re gonna tell me, “Well, I’m probably gonna sell the house in 6 months. “Well, if you’re gonna sell the house in 6 months, it’s not gonna make sense- Yeah. to refinance right now, you know, and what their goals are. So it’s more of just a conversation on, yes, you can lower your interest rate. Okay, well, you know, how much is it gonna save you a month? What’s the cost gonna be to refinance? How long is it gonna make it back doing that? And you can always refinance again. Yeah. A lot of people think, you know, there’s a time period. You don’tI mean, depending on the loan program, there are some time periods that you have to wait, 6 months kind of being the average, you know, on the long side of things. But you can always refinance again, and, uh, it really just kinda depends on y- on your scenario, in my opinion, you know, if it makes sense or not and what your long-term goals are with the property. Yeah. I feel like there’s a lot of people out there that buy a house and they, they, they didn’t plan on buying a house, right? They justI know it sounds crazy. You know, 2, 3 weeks, uh, ago, you’re sitting on the couch or you’re with your wife or your girlfriend and she’s like, “I wanna buy a house,” next thing you know you’re on Zillow, next thing you know you’re looking at a house, and there we- really wasn’t that getting ready and being prepared. There’s so many times that our phones ring on the weekend and somebody’s putting an offer on our house that we’ve never pre-approved before. They’ve never been pre-approved, but they’re buying a house. Uh, so one of the things on here was, you know, when your credit score gets higher. A lot of people buying a credi- buying a house without actually going through the process 3, 4 months in advance to really get themselves prepared. So we see a lot of, like, lower credit scores. And it doesn’t have to be terrible, right? But there’s a big difference between a 719 and a 721 credit score, or a 639 and a 640. Um, so some of those things might be, you know, big calls for your, your mortgage guy or mortgage woman and saying, “Hey, listen, my credit score has gone up 140 points since I bought or refinanced last with you. Can we take a look at that? “Because if you do have PMI, or property mortgage insurance, that can be reduced drastically, if not completely eliminated, along with the credit score going higher is gonna make it a lot better. Yeah, your credit score can be a huge factor in it. I mean, you might’ve tooken- taken out an FHA loan because your credit score wasn’t where it needed to be. That value of the property might’ve went up a little bit. Your credit score’s a lot better now. It may make sense to look at going into a conventional loan to have cheaper mortgage insurance or no mortgage insurance, plus the fact that it could fall off at that point. So, you know, w- what you did or what you had in your scenario when you bought the house can also definitely come into play in when it is worth refinancing. I think our assistant did a really good job coming up with some of these things, because there’s some on here that I wouldn’t even have thought of. But, um, you know, wanting to switch from an adjustable rate mortgage into a fixed product, right? Over the last 3 to 5 years, we’ve seen adjustable rate mortgages make a big comeback. They m- they’re advantageous for the consumer by reducing the monthly payments that they have now. And we, we, we did a lot of these where there’s fixed for 7 years, right? They might only be a year into it. They might only be 2 years into it-But the 30-year fixed might be a half a percent better. Is that a good time for somebody to take a, take a look at refinancing? Yeah, I think that’s definitely a scenario that would be a little more advantageous to refinance a little bit sooner than maybe if you were in a fixed rate because nobody knows what’s gonna happen with interest rates. They may come down more, they may not come down more. And if you can get yourself back into a fixed rate and lower your rate at the same time, you know, I think it’s a no-brainer to not have that stress of worrying about that, like, day that’s coming that your i- interest rate could start to adjust, you know. And it may not be for another 5 or 6 years but, you know, now you’re protected and, and if you’re lowering your interest rate- Let’s, and if somebody’s at 6% you can take them to 5. 5 on a 30-year fixed, like what are they doing? Yeah, I mean I wouldn’t personally like refinance an arm into a higher fixed rate at this point- No. today, you know. But if in a couple of years down the line you’re at a position where rates haven’t come down or maybe they did come down, you didn’t want to at the time, and now they’re starting to go back up and you can get it locked into a fixed rate at a similar rate, you know, is an, is an option as well. Yeah. You brought this up, uh, earlier, cost and considerations on refinancing, right? When does the cost and does it make sense to refinance now? Obviously if there is a big need in the refinance, anybody looking for cash out to pay off debt, my opinion, I almost don’t have to look at it. I mean if you have more than 15, 20,000 you can’t pay that off within 6 months on your own, more times than not I’m probably gonna lean towards a cashout refinance to eliminate that debt and just increase cashflow. But, you know, closing costs, um, typically run about 2% to 5% of the loan amount, right? So, um, $400,000 loan, closing costs gonna be $5,000, $6,000? Yeah, you’re probably looking like hard costs on a refinance at that loan size, now including your escrows and prepays which you’re gonna get back from your other mortgage company- Yeah. in that you’re gonna pay that regardless. They can make the numbers look higher than it really is, but it’s important to really understand how that works. Hard costs, you’re probably looking 4,000 to 5,000- Okay. in most loan sizes, you know, in our area. And if you can make that back within a year to a year and a half to 2 years, you know, it’s probably worth refinancing at that point because yeah, rates may come down a little bit more, but they never may be enough toAnd, and then at what point, you gotta look at also if you didn’t refinance and you waited that year, well how much more did you spend? So now- Yeah. that’s gotten into like, you know, where that profit, uh, where that breakeven point would be. Typically when I look at it, if you can make it back within a year it’s a great idea. Yeah. If you can make it back within 2, it’s a pretty good idea. Anything more than that, you know, you may want to- It’s questionable. Yeah, you, y- you’re probably looking at a very low loan size ’cause most of the time you’re gonna be at, you know, a position where, or the rates just haven’t come down enough to make it make sense, yeah. And this is on a rate and term, not a cashout. Rate and term, yeah. Yeah, that’s right. Cashout, like, like Vern said, 100%. I mean if you’re struggling to pay your stuff, you know you’re not gonna be able to keep up on it, do it sooner rather than later because you’re, uh, the lower your credit score goes, the less options you’re gonna have to do it. And I’ve had so many clients that just wait way too long to do it and now they’re like hoping to try to get it done. It’s like you shoulda called me a year ago, 2 years ago, or you know- Before your maxed out on every credit card and your score just kept falling down. Yeah, I mean that’s a big thing that I think a lot of people don’t understand is how much the utilization on their credit can affect their credit score. Look at people’s credit reports every day and they’re like, “I don’t understand. I make all my payments. “I’m like, “Yes, you make all your payments, but every single credit card you have is like maxed out. “From Home Depot to your AmEx. And your credit score is not 700 anymore, it’s 630 because of that. You may not have missed any payments but your credit score can still be way lower. And now, depending on how much equity you have in that property, your, your options start to become very limited. You may have to look at an FHA loan. Most HELOCs don’t go that low. I don’t know a lot of banks or, or lenders that go, you know, most, most- 660, 680- 680, yeah. on the low side. And once you’re under that, well now your options are a little bit more limited where you, yeah, maybe if it was only 15 or 20,000, a HELOC would’ve made more sense. Yeah. You start getting up to 80, 100,000, I mean a cashout’s probably gonna make more sense- Yeah. at that point, but you may not even have that option. Yeah. You know? No, it’s definitely a tough one. Let’s, uh, let’s bust some common myths. Um, you said this earlier. How many times can somebody refinance? As many times as you want. Cashout, rate and term, it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter. As many times. Refinancing wrecks your credit. This is one I get, you know, all the time because we have to do a, a hard inquiry, you have to do a credit check. does it really affect your credit in any way negatively? No, I don’t see it affecting anybody’s credit negatively at all. Um, you know, you seeUh, I think, uh, what happens a lot is people go get an auto loan and then they go to a dealership and they run their credit at, like, 15 different places at all different hard pulls, and then they see a drop in their credit because of that. When you go for a mortgage, it’s one credit pull. One credit pull is really not gonna change your credit score- Yeah. much at all. Maybe it drops a few points. You may see a small drop, you know, because your loan got paid off, and then when it reported to the next loan coming back in, so you may see a month where your credit may shift because of that, because having a mortgage will help your credit. And depending on how great your credit is and- How old you’ve had it. Uh, yeah, and how long you’ve had it and everything like that, like, just like paying off an auto loan. At times, paying off certain debts can actually drop your credit score, depending on what you have on your credit, especially for younger people who don’t have as established credit, trade lines that have been open for so long, so that’s holding a lot of weight in their credit and that gets paid off, you may see a drop. But once that new mortgage reports, it’s gonna come right back and it’s gonna rebound. And then on the cash-out side of things, I mean, you’re gonna see a huge improvement on your credit- Yeah. as you pay off all that debt and your utilization goes down. Yeah. Anybody out there looking out for cash-out refinances, I’m telling you, if you look at your revolving, so just your credit card debt, take out your car loans, I don’t even really get into that. If you have credit card debt that you cannot personally pay off within the 12 months and being, you know, watching it like a hawk and really concentrating on eliminating that debt, you’re gonna find yourself in a situation if you don’t cut your spending down that you can’t get yourself out of. And I, I’ve had many clients over the last 20 years that I have to sit across from them after I look at everything and s- all the war stories that you’re talking about, credit score went down to 580, what ends up happening, maybe it gets a little tough at home, the home life gets a little tough. Now we might be talking about a divorce. Maybe, maybe there’s a buyout on the other side. And that credit score is the most important 3digit number that you will carry along a- around with you. I tell people all the time, “I’d rather have a 720 and no money in the bank,” because you can, your borrowing power is that much higher. Do not wait until you get to the 580 FICO score with $100,000 worth of debt. I mean, if you can’t pay it off within 6 to 12 months, really look at a refinance. I mean, I’ve done refinances for so many people where their credit’s in the low 600s because of their utilization and then they do exactly what we talk to them about. They pay everything off with the refinance. 6 months later they call me back, their credit’s 800. Yeah. You know, a- and now they can go into a rate and term, back into a conventional loan if they had to go with an FHA loan or whatever it is, or they go into a better rate for, you know, with conventional loans especially, the lower your credit score is, the higher the rate’s gonna be. So if you can get into it, or maybe you refinance into an adjustable rate so that your, you know, your payment’s a little more affordable, and then as your credit goes up, rates come down, now you go back into a fixed rate at that point. So we’re gonna wrap this up with some final tips. Um, you know, one of, one of the things I r- I always preach is make sure you work with somebody you trust, and if you don’t know somebody in the mortgage business, ask a friend. Ask a realtor friend. If you don’t have a mortgage friend or a real estate friend, talk to another friend who might know some of those guys and make sure you’re really working with somebody who’s gonna be able to give you multiple scenarios. There’s too many times in this business, we see it all the time, it’s like, “This is your only option. “Well, it’s really not my only option. It’s just what you think might be the best option. And it’s okay to ask questions when you’re going through this process because you might not understand, you know, why Craig or myself or another loan officer is kinda guiding you down that path. Ask the question. I listen to Craig all the time on the phone. He spends more time on the phone explaining out every possible scenario to the consumer, even the ones, “Well, you could do this. I don’t really suggest it. You’ll probably be back to see me in 9 months and we’re gonna do what, these other scenarios that I told yous up front. “Um, what are some of the final tips that you would give, you know, uh, anybody out there looking to refinance a property? I mean, I think if you’re thinking about it, you know, have a conversation with somebody that you trust. If you’re looking for a friend, I’ll be your friend. I’ll give you some good advice on, you know, what you should do or what you shouldn’t do. It may not be the right time. I mean, I get a ton of my clients that reach out to me all the time, “Hey, is it a good time to refinance? “I look at their scenario, no, it’s not. It doesn’t make sense yet, you know? We’re not gonna put somebody in, in a position to refinance to save, you know, $100 a month and not make that money back up soon enough. if you talk to the right people, you know, and you, you work with somebody that you trust, you’re always gonna have th- they’re always gonna have your best interest in mind, you know, at the end of the day. One deal to me is not gonna make or break it. Yeah. I’m more worried about that long-term relationship with that client and anybody that they refer to me to make sure that we do the right thing for them. And I think that’s the biggest thing, you know, not everybody in that, in this business or anybody in any business is the same. Finding somebody that you can trust and, you know, that gives you the advice and answers the questions that you have is the most important piece. That’s awesome. Great work today, Craig. Refinance 101, class is adjourned. Thanks, guys.